Worried about the "rebranding", anyone else?

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You’re not the lone voice, some others have expressed discontent above. But fair play to you for speaking out clearly.

I feel similarly. I waited a few days to get over the initial unpleasant feeling of change, which is natural enough, and probably just my own sentimental attachments.

Even after a couple of days, I can’t shake the feeling that the “gutsy” thing to do, the “defiant” thing, would have been to keep the name and plough on to the finish line. MaidSafe have been doing the gutsy thing for years, it seemed to me (the switch to Rust, moving on from Parsec, etc etc).

This feels like trying to win back and be liked by the crypto crowd, who are a vanishingly small percentage of the populations of the world. 99.99%+ of people never heard of Safe or anything like it, so to them one brand or the other is irrelevant.

The consolation I’m trying to hold on to is that the name is orthogonal to the fundamental promises of the network. It remains to be seen whether MaidSafe will stick to the fundamentals as marketing ramps up, new people flood in, and as external pressures arise - from governments, the media, three-letter agencies, angry mobs, and so on.

It is tempting to view this name-change as a bad sign in that regard, to be honest. Whether we’ve one name or another won’t change the gargantuan pressure MaidSafe will be under, and it won’t change the fact that a lot of people will be extremely displeased with people having more “autonomy”. MaidSafe will not be liked by everyone, and will never be able to foresee all legal issues.

Anyway, I won’t harp on about it after I’ve made my point. I hope my fears are unfounded. I hope MaidSafe do handle the pressures on the horizon, and deliver the fundamentals they’ve promised without making any concessions on Secure Access For Everyone - which means privacy, necessarily. Any concessions when it comes to privacy mean the thing has failed - no matter the name.

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That’s interesting because to me this is the opposite - a recognition that the old brand was too technically oriented / focused on the ‘stack’ (eg “Network”), and failing to differentiate itself from other similar sounding promises of security etc.

Highlighting how autonomy is a unique achievement, and how that is essential to delivering on any of the promises provides the differentiation.

I’d like to see more in the white paper about what this delivers to all stakeholders - but the foundation is sound and enables that to be done in a way that more easily defeats competitive claims to do similar things to Secure Access For Everyone.

To do this without driving home why Autonomi is unique is much harder, and leads into technically detailed comparisons that won’t convince anywhere as easily as: ok, but is blah truly autonomous, and if it isn’t, how does that compare to a system which is?

With this brand, nobody can pretend another non-autonomous project can do the same things.

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I agree. In the beginning (2017 for me) it took me a while to be comfortable with MAID as part of the name and being able to explain it to others. Yes, there is a technical reason for its spelling, and it’s a nice phonetic twist on “made”, but still it felt a little clumsy for the average person and something that required explanation. Same goes for SAFE, though that is more straightforward. Despite feeling a little sad at the loss of the old name I think the new name is much cleaner and more accessible to the wider public. Rather than an acronym, the name is simple and stands on its own with regards to its dual meaning (human and network autonomy). And the “i” at the end brings in the third connection to AI.

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Encountered the same experiences. People usually just laugh when they hear/read MAID. We all got used to it and love it for what it represents. But let’s be honest, we’re pretty much all tech nerds that aren’t here for the money. With the upcoming launch / communication / campaigns, we’re going to have to speak to a much wider public. Non tech people, moonboys and even companies. Even though I’m not very fond of moonboys and there approach, they do bring money to the project and usually drag people along with them. It’s a double edged sword really. But autonomi is the mature branding that we need to address and speak to all types of people.

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I disagree. The Safe Network is about people, Everyone. Ensuring secure access to information for all individuals, by the mutual efforts of all individuals in the network. The fundamentals were focused on people, just as much if not more than tech. The technology being developed was a tool for people. The forums and existing web were a temporary communications platform for people until the better tech was completed. The Safe Network is a network of people first, and tech second.

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The disgruntled response is not so much about the addition of “autonomi” as it is the removal of “the safe network”.

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Absolutely, and I agree with everything you say in that reply. None of it contradicts anything I’ve said in this topic because you are referring there to the goals, technology and capabilities rather than the change in branding.

The change in branding hasn’t changed the goals, the design, capabilities or purpose of the network. Adopting Autonomi hasn’t changed the fundamentals either, it has highlighted aspects (autonomy for users and in operation that were always fundamental) that some of us believe will be better for achieving the original aims including Secure Access For Everyone.

Let’s hear why you think that the original branding will be better at that.

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I asked GPT why Autonomi sounded greek:

The term “autonomy” does sound Greek because it originates from the Greek language. It’s composed of two parts: “auto-” meaning “self,” and “-nomos,” meaning “law” or “norm.” So, autonomy essentially means “self-law,” referring to the concept of self-governance or the right to self-rule.

It is absolutely the correct brand name. :100:

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It’s great that the word is spelled almost the same in many languages with the same meaning. In Flemish (I live in Belgium), you write “autonomie”. So I really like the brand autonomi. I understand the strong attachment to “SAFE” by some, but for me personally, it’s such a broad concept. I work in healthcare, and I immediately link it to ethical issues. Safe access for everyone: agreed. But unfortunately, this doesn’t necessarily mean “safety for everyone,” as there are also people with unfair intentions. In my opinion, it’s better to emphasize autonomy rather than “safe”. So, I’m also a fan :smiling_face:

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This couldn’t be less relevant. No one has said they dislike the etymology of the word “autonomy”.

I asked “llama-2-70b-chat” on https://chat.lmsys.org/ exactly this question:

Why does the word “Safe” sound so exciting?

And got exactly the following answer (don’t bother reading, I implore you, it’s completely irrelevant to this discussion):

Repetitive LLM output about "Safe" being exciting

The word “safe” can sound exciting or appealing for a few reasons:

  1. Safety is a fundamental human need: People have a natural desire to feel safe and secure, and the word “safe” can evoke feelings of comfort, protection, and reassurance. When we hear the word “safe,” we may feel a sense of relief or relaxation, knowing that we are protected from harm or danger.
  2. Safety is a positive concept: The word “safe” is often associated with positive emotions, such as happiness, calmness, and peace of mind. When we hear the word “safe,” we may feel a sense of hope or optimism, knowing that we are in a situation where we can feel secure and protected.
  3. Safety is a desirable state: The word “safe” can also evoke feelings of desire or longing, especially when we are in a situation where we feel unsafe or uncertain. For example, if we are in a dangerous or high-risk situation, the word “safe” may sound particularly appealing, as it represents a state that we want to achieve.
  4. Safety is a keyword in popular culture: The word “safe” is often used in popular culture, such as in music, movies, and advertising, to evoke feelings of security, protection, and comfort. For example, a song with the lyrics “I’m safe, I’m sound” may create a sense of reassurance and security in the listener.
  5. Safety is a universal language: The word “safe” is a universal concept that transcends languages and cultures. It is a word that people from all over the world can understand and relate to, and it can evoke similar emotions and associations regardless of language or cultural background.

Overall, the word “safe” can sound exciting or appealing because it represents a fundamental human need, a positive concept, a desirable state, a keyword in popular culture, and a universal language that transcends cultural and linguistic boundaries.

I’ve been baited by this incredible GPT etymology lesson into this response, and will try to not engage further after this last attempt at clarification – I’ve made no comment on the new name. I’ve said:

I have opinions about the new name, but they’re not important, and will make no difference to the success or failure of the project, so I won’t wave them about as if they do matter. If the network works, people will like it. If it doesn’t, they won’t care either way.

Whether the network works (i.e., stays true to the vision and really serves people) will depend on dealing with immense external pressures, and, in many cases, not pandering to the masses. As I’ve said, I am hoping for the best here, but am not sure the name-change leaves me more confident than before about these essential questions.

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I’ve already done that and have no desire to waste any more energy. No one takes the time to read what is written anyhow. But here’s one last bit of wasted energy as a final rant on the matter, given the fact we’re longtime forum friends:

It was a huge ordeal last time to plead with them to not change the SNT market cap. This is beyond compare. All they had to do was include a reference to “safe network” in some reasonable fashion like neo suggested and I probably wouldn’t have complained so loudly, if at all. Autonomi could just as easily been the version 1 front-end user experience or theme for the back-end engine which is “the safe network”… allowing for infinite future renaming of other upgrades by future marketing campaigns while maintaining continuity. So much for “the permanent web”. Hopefully someone will come up with a better logo. Peace.

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Thanks, and good to be friends here though we can disagree. I think people do read your posts BTW, and sometimes agree with you :wink:

I hadn’t read that suggestion though. My gut is that it would be confusing, but like you I have better things I want to spend time on than debating it.

What’s done is done after all, but I though it worthwhile sharing my thoughts both about the brand and your criticisms. You haven’t commented on those, even in your reply to my post, but that’s ok.

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I see your view. There really isn’t much else to say. People tend to have an either/or mentality in a debate. I was annoyed that it couldn’t very well be “both”, the middle path. No, it wouldn’t be confusing… a common/intuitive pattern really, for any software project.

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For what it’s worth… I have not attended to the forum or the project for over a year. This brand change caught my attention, but when I dropped in to investigate I still have no sense of the project approaching a real world launch that a naive user could understand. The promotional video was too frenetic and glitzy to understand and more likely to induce a seizure than convey information. Being an old fart, I sort of liked the SAFE brand and its acronym.

I also see in the discussion above that there is also a new CEO and a bunch of excitement about the launch of a Discord channel. I understand that, after an 18 year run, @dirvine might be looking for reinforcement and toward succession but I’m not sure what benefit Discord confers beyond the current forum platform.

Perhaps I am just confused and out of touch? I’ll try and touch in a bit more frequently over the coming weeks and see if I can get back up to speed. I see that there is an update of the Primer due and a new whitepaper that might enlighten. I also took a cursory spin through the “roadmap” and was impressed with the dynamic graphics but did not quite grasp the substance. If anyone can point me to a succinct, layman’s guide to what’s happened over the past couple of years and a summary of the projected trajectory over the next 18 months or so, that would be helpful. e.g. How soon would a naive user be able to start using SafeNet to store documents? How soon would a mildly adventurous user with spare disk space be able to farm out that excess capacity to the network? I’m not so interested in cryptocurrency as in the core functionality of secure, decentralized storage.

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I’m not against rebranding if it’s absolutely necessary, but to a name already used by numerous companies??? Makes absolutely no sense to me.

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Why has a name already used by numerous companies been chosen for rebranding the Safe network? Makes absolutely no sense. Can someone enlighten me me why this has happened? I think it’s a horendous decision.

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The name is irrelevant, what matters is that it starts and works as a technology. Then there will be copies with different names and economies and communities - if the name annoys you so much you will have the option of joining another ant colony…

Privacy. Security. Freedom

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Utility is really the root of it all. Without this there is nothing and it does not matter what the name is.

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Try and find a word not already in use, that describes the network.

Have you followed for long?

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Have I followed what for long? If you’re asking do I hold MAID tokens, the answer is yes. My first buy was in early 2018, so that’s 6 years now. I’m excited about the possible launch that could happen this year, but not happy about them using Autonomi for the new name. Type Autonomi into Google search and all sorts of businesses using that name crop up. I haven’t been on this forum much if that’s what your question actually relates to - it’s a nightmare to navigate - another concern considering it’s run by a high tech company. My main concern though, is what’s going to happen to my investment. Changing the name to Autonomi, as far as I’m concerned, isn’t a positive move, and nor was adding an ERC20 option to the MAID token before the swap over to a Safenetwork token a good idea. It was difficult enough buying Maid to start with, let alone confuse things even further with the same token having different values depending on where you buy them. And also using the Ethereum network, with its inflated fees, was another bad move to add to the others I’ve mentioned. My fingers are crossed for the launch, though. :slightly_smiling_face: