Update 29 August, 2024

Development Updates
144

Haha yeah I didn’t plan on starting a storm xD

Was just wondering about the rules of the game since it’s in its final stages and therefore it should be clear now how it is planned to be finished… And having spreadsheets where copying the data gets blocked (and the data not matching the numbers that had been communicated so far…) doesn’t exactly make people trust other stuff that has been said…

(… And it’s still simply unclear what the numbers are now… xD )

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145

I will do what I can, but I have many days when I am floored yet. I will try though. It’s not an excuse, but please don’t expect I can answer so much every day. Many days I am not able for it and there is a ton of stuff to get done internally too. I do try and write up papers and docs for the team to help out. So it is pretty manic, albeit apparently invisible.

We will get there, wherever that is ;-0

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146

I agree. It seems again to be seen as an issue of feelings and not what has, over months, lead to this loss of confidence in the plan and those saying it is all going to be fine. When you keep being told that for months, and things just get worse, well yes you can get emotional. But that is not the problem.

Calm down dear, calm down

Um, well how does that make you feel :laughing:

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147

Glad for you - it’s bloody hot over here but will get some nice and cool white wine soonish =)

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148

That’s enough from me for a while. I hope you can get some rest David and whatever you do don’t jeopardise your recovery.

I’ve no idea what I’ll be doing for a bit which is quite a change! For now, walking the :dog2: :smiley:

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149

we’ll conquer the world! (well … or maybe the internet? part of it? xD)

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Had a read through guys and will be as candid as always in my thoughts/responses - I respect that this community is very close to the team and has been integral to much of the development over the years, I’m not sure why some feel it a lost cause to walkaway from, it would be more than a shame, especially given all the guys (and you) have put in so far. Especially when we’re in a moment in time where it is brutally clear, even in the best of scenarios, that the internet is a tool for the masses … what kind of tool, imo is somewhat critical to our legacy as well as our lives/livelihoods.

In response to the thread, there’s likely three main threads/themes I would flag -

Please note: this is a reactionary message, being sent ahead of the full update I mentioned on the last stages I was on - and so I would ask/request that you perhaps reserve some of your judgements and concerns until you read all the materials associated with that, as we can then deal with everything more openly and effectively.

  1. Yes, communication is poor. Especially by comparison to what you would have experienced previously. I cannot fill David’s shoes, I was never intended to fill David’s shoes and I sadly cannot do the job of talking at a technical level to you guys about the network. As a result of this, you may look back on me as a mis-hire but in the interim please know that I’ve not detracted from the team, the team has grown, there are 3 (4 in a week) new engineers, a product manager and a data and tokenomics expert, as well as a few other non technical folk, who like me are here to add value, problem solve and support the release of the network, so it’s a success, not just live and out there in some form but gaining credibility and momentum. Ultimately we need to have something demonstrable from the years of R&D, a public release, is not the end - it’s the start. Putting the network in the hands of you and others, so it’s accessible, so that you can build with, interact with and experience/use it as intended - even if at the very beginning, that is in a most simple form, will be this network’s life-force. Communication should also start to feel more like it did, of course we know and we need your help and input, you need the team to interact to do that - we just need to have done all we can to make that available and scalable for you - and the engineers, otherwise we will always be limited by ‘bandwidth’ of people and hours.
  2. To be transparent, I’ve had some big issues around timeline that the guys were aiming for back in January (when I met them), due in part to some of the gaps that formed during beta (performance, payments etc) as well as some of the clear chasms that existed outside of it (UX/UI and interface layers/tools) - the idea that we could do all we were still talking about seemed lofty and at odds to me with the reality of experience that the majority of people (long time supporters as well as brand new participants alike) were having to weather. Yes, I absolutely could have said, when I made the call in early August as to what we need to commit to (and communicate to everyone in Sept once details were hammered out) “guys it’s not ready, maybe you keep going with R&D as a squad, work with community and see how the native token, bridges, integrations, recovery procedures, payment packets, the equivalent of smart contracts for royalties, which still feel conceptual, develop - with these features, and the APIs for RUST and JavaScript inc SDKs, maybe next year is more appropriate - assuming the network differential of home nodes/true distribution, is great enough, and that the incentive to move to network and build on it is large enough” but didn’t. I did however understand that the native token was a way out and that while there is some great foundational work done, there are so many moving and unproven/unresolved parts to it. And, that even with that solved and the community able to commence building xx number applications using the API (the API work is nearing completion), that we still likely need people with an audience to at least use us for storage from initial deployment (TGE), in order for us to have real data to host and people already working at scale to ‘sandbox’ with. And, hey even if those projects are exciting and those looking at the network feel bullish as a result of that - we’d then, still need something simple and obvious for non builders (users) to do, something with a little instant gratification that they’re not already getting elsewhere - after all most ‘non tech’ folk aren’t going to run nodes for a few years yet… The idea that we would have disregarded any or all of these things and that we would ploughed ahead, based on an internal deadline or some sort of partner pressure in order to do something that would be to the detriment of you or the network would be irresponsible and is a complete mischaracterisation.
  3. October is not a product release and it is not being treated like one - products will of course exist (and hopefully thrive) on the network, but the network is exactly that, it will take years to grow, mature and scale. October is the start of a process with builders (with hopefully some of you guys among them). While the beta has been utterly frustrating and on one too many occasions, embarrassing - it has been useful in its own way. Yes it is far from what it could have/should have been, but there will be rewards for all who tried to help, and even aspects such as ‘the bot’ have helped to highlight issues from uploaders and the auditor, to data and spend issues - the bot has also had a few of it’s own bugs as well. For the beta node program, we will be closing out over the next few weeks with who we have, and we will begin with two new test programs (this community will of course get details and optionally for both). One of these will be for network token/payments. Please note: you will get visibility on all of this as soon as we’ve everything written up fully/properly - we will of course then listen and react to your feedback. As some of the messages here highlight, there is nothing worse than half baked comms - followed by the feeling that you’re screaming into the wind when you react and seek clarity around them …
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151

EDIT: While I wrote this Bux posted the post above. So this is not a reply to her, but written without reading her message.

I hope you get well soon. Not for the project, for yourself.

This is the first time I heard that your absence has been a contributing factor to the current situation. Before you getting ill you stepped a bit to the background and I just thought you not been seen around was just a planned continuation of that. I thought your illness was just a little thing and didn’t change much the way things were and are.

All in all the way you have communicated here now is the way I like. I get a grasp of the reasons why things are the way they are and it all gets more understandable.

Otherwise I’ve been really lost about where the project is at now? All I can see is that uploads and earning is somewhat working, but the way the community is excluded from getting any hands-on interaction leaves so much details out, that it is really hard to get a picture how well the system is actually working.

In the beginning of the exclusion I was willing to roll with it, but now that it has gotten to be several months - not so much. The members who are doing some uploading etc. are actually paying for it, finding bugs, doing useful tests, and what they get from Autonomi is mostly silence, not a penny of help. It’s just so rude that… I don’t know what to say. The least I would expect is an explanation why?

It also seems no one has taken the Roadmap seriously at all. Missing the marks has not lead to anything else than someone shrugging and telling how great it is going to be in October nevertheless. I’m 100% sure there is all the effort to get things done, no problem with that. But when all the dates and other commitments so far has been treated as meaningless sketches, do you really expect me to have any trust to anything I’m told by the currently active management anymore?

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152

Thank you very much for your time and thoughtful response to this… You have no idea

How glad I am to hear this xD because I was thinking this was the plan and imho there was no way the product would be ‘ready’ from what I saw so far…
… Which doesn’t mean I think we’re off track here or you wouldn’t do awesome work! This project has never been in a better position than now! It just needs some additional time to get ready! Thank you very much for your hard work! :hugs: And sorry for the storm here xD…

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153

hey, please never apologise, a storm is a good way to clear the air and get a survey the damage to be fixed. It’s actually been super valuable to have the opportunity (with some weekend hours) to sit down and read through all this properly. Between you guys and 1984 my Saturday night is covered :wink: Lightness to one side, I know we have a lot to run through with you all - you need links, details and people on hand to have any questions answered

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154

There is a lot here, Im reading all of it - re: the beta rewards spreadsheets, I will make sure there’s a deep dive on who has what from the token pool and do a breakdown, we will of course address and take a hit on any errors our side (rewards calculations and boost aspects was all manual/database off network so as to not touch engineers) - the beta program has highlighted several concerning elements (not related to the token pool given to say thank you for those helping) - which we will need to have fully (and provably) addressed prior to a public release of any kind, these are the plans to be shared with you that lead into and continue on from October

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My guess is most of these guys don’t care about the rewards pool bux but they do care about the network. I don’t have the ability to understand most of their concerns because it’s way over my head but being here nearly ten years I have never seen them so disheartened. They want to help, they can help and they will help if you and the team let them (not sure if that’s possible) From my perspective (not understanding the complexity of the problems) there is not going to be enough time to fix all of these problems and test them adequately before october. I hope they are proven wrong of course :crossed_fingers:t2:

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156

That makes a lot of sense - thanku for replying to me, I absolutely hear you. Just to say, we won’t be releasing anything into the wild, that has the ability to cause damage (in any number of different ways), that does mean what we’re able to do (with a circa 6 week test period starting mid september) is dependent on some changes/updates that we’ll share soon - and also means some aspects will come later in the launch cycle, with the same less ‘bang’, and more ‘build up’. Will share more details soon, and hopefully with that, and a better process for collaboration with you all and the technical team, we can turn the next corner - together.

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157

i just got off as ship after several months on board so unable in my current state of sobriety to comprehend everything in your previous messages .

firstly @dirvine i am heartbroken to to hear of your health troubles and if you need a hand on the farm for any reason at all I am a farmers son so please do not think you are alone let me know i can be at your house in 20 min :wink:

@bux this is not a community you inherited those of us that are called OG’s we are a family with a history together that goes back nearly a decade our bonds are strong and commitment unshakable until the last few weeks when family members like @happybeing are having doubt that leaves the rest of us unsettled. please take on board his concerns about the dev forum seriously as he offered to man it single handedly. no one has more respect round here than him he is second only to @dirvine in the eyes of the safe network family.

also for the beta fiasco about coin allotments in beta I formally renounce all my coin allocations from wave 1 participation and would like to donate them to the @BambooGarden fund.

it is a shame and a stain on the community when people who have systems that they designed to run nodes. did not share them with the rest of us in the spirit of the community that we belong to .

and yes @Erwin only reason i never humped you from the get go was out of respect that i thought you were a believer. complaining about you and your referrals rewards take a good look in the mirror. its only money :slight_smile:

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158

thanks @Bux for the first like now any one wants a fight lets go :rofl:

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Tried to reply to this at the time with a pic from sunny Prestwick beach looking over to the old offices in Troon - but I ran out of battery and then we went to the pub…

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and cos the A77 was shut we ended up in a traffic jam going past the offices Maidsafe had in Heathfield but while swish, they were not photogenic in the slightest…

We know you are doing your best David and we definitely dont want you to overdo it.
I think generally there is recognition (and if not, there bloddy well should be) that @Bux and @JimCollinson and the rest are doing their best too, possibly in an arena they were not fully expecting but still I have faith in them, just tell us what you are up to, please (withhin the linmits of commercial confidentiality)

Anyhow, Im pissed (£2 pints in the Weston, Kilmaurs, good food CAMRA) with a load of responses to deal with so I will do that and try to respond cogently

tl:dr Take care David and take it easy. We WILL complete this , maybe not quite as soon as planned but it WILL happen.

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@bux - thank you for taking the time to compose such a comprehensive reply.
It would be best for me to reply in detail at a later more sober time but thank you anyway.
There was a lot of air needed to be cleared, we have done some of that and I hope we all still respect each other as we should and the fundamental issues can get addressed.

Anyway I love you all… More tomorrow

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You guess correctly.
If the rewards cover what it cost me to rent a Hetzner server, then Im happy. So far my weekly rewards have covered the monthly rent so I have nothing to complain about there.
I and I think ALL of the OGs are far far more concerneed about the network itself than the trivial details of a temporary incentive scheme.
We’ll leave the whining about that to the more venal of the those who hang around the forum.

The network and its success is ALL that matters. WGAF about the details of a fun wee incentive that got hit by some truly awful luck - and a shite bot? Nobody that matters, thats who.

And with that, night night, you mostly beautiful people.

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162

Get to bed you soppy bas#ard :kissing_heart:

DO NOT MENTION FOOTBALL EITHER.

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I learned to drive on a grey Fergie, if you want tractors driven, Im yer man :slight_smile:

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