Update 29 August, 2024

None of that is a surprise to the long-standing members I talk to. We already understand this and the amazing progress which we regularly acknowledge, as well as the difficulties.

We discuss and understand all those things, and we see a bigger picture coming together that is not good. I’ve tried to highlight aspects this over the months as they became more apparent and more worrying.

Toivo summed up the cultural issue above, but the product delivery side has big problems too so I believe launch now risks being like the beta reward scheme but much worse and with more serious consequences.

It’s not that any of us don’t value the rewards scheme. I haven’t heard anyone say we shouldn’t have it. We’ve born with it, helped solve the issues with people trying to get nodes working, criticised it sometimes, and then rolled with it at every twist and turn.

The bigger problem is that it shows what could happen with the same approach to the network. Which would be a good thing if that has a positive impact on timing, replanning etc, and maybe some reflection and soul searching.

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What are you saying specifically though. Is it delay launch?

I am a bit lost on the bigger picture part to, but am keen to learn about it.

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Using the rewards program as an example as it is the hot topic over the last 24 hours.

What should be 100% clear, easy to follow, easy to explain and understand is apparently not understood, clear or easy to a single person here.

Take that confusion and spread it about many other aspects where people can’t make sense of whats going, see problems and you end up with frustration and festering.

Maybe it doesn’t matter that a handful of people here feel that way, maybe it is collateral damage with launch.

Maybe everyone is just stressed out and this is not necessarily making it better so I am going to retreat and not add anymore.

Hopefully enough has been said already.

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Is it mainly comms, folks?

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YES
Do it now - to manage expectations - make the launch date indeterminate for now ( we lived 10 yrs + like that) and aim for late Feb 25.

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The bounty complaint is from people who, despite being told to use available hardware, have leveraged beyond their comfort zone of what they can comfortably lose.

For me, the main problem is that when we report the problem with the Launchpad, there is a denial that such a problem exists. Before the problem was acknowledged, 2 weeks passed with explanations of how everything was fine, which drove some people away.

Right now there is a problem again and no one has come forward to admit it. I’m ok with focusing efforts on what is known to work - real IPs and forwarded ports and leaving the launchpad whit nat for a later stage.


Privacy. Security. Freedom

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As you are the key player in this - titular CEO or not - this should be the reason to hold back another 3-4 months. @Bux and @JimCollinson are doing the best they can but but it will take tested working code to launch not just ra-ra round the whiteboard( yes thats unfair but YKWIM)
The time to working code was ludicrously under-estimated in your absence David and thats why I think the least damaging option right ow is to call a time out for 2 months. Let the Waves wither and die, in manyways they were successful, others not.

Start the Waves (or similar) again ( 2nd week of Jan?) with PROPER BLOODY SUPPORT THIS TIME!!!

Essentials:

  • A tested Discord bot that can handle 1000 queries/sec
  • A properly designed support system with tickets
  • A “welcome” screen that directs noobs with no nanos through a triage form before they even get to post “Hi folks, just a quick one, I havent read back but I have no nanos, help me, please”
  • A bare bones functional API

You will note nothing about core code (other than API) above. Thats cos I still have faith that the team can rise to the the remaining challenges

I was utterly naively assuming that as @Bux was sold to us as a brilliant CEO of a somewhat related project with excellent Discord skills/integration that we would have these things within a couple of weeks of her appointment and in plenty time for the incentives scheme.

Well thats what niaivety gets you…

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Some things with the reward distribution for the different waves seems off and does not represent what was proposed before Beta, from numbers above. I understand that wave 3 was cut in half as time when Beta ends is running out. That the wave 1 price pool only gets 25% larger when wave 3 start and wave 2 gets 50% larger seems wrong. With the numbers shown above Wave 2 looks like they will in many ways be rewarded more but it was communicated that wave 1 was aimed towards giving back towards the OG’s for long term commitment and it was portrayed wave 1 would get significant higher rewards.

The Beta program bringing new folks into running nodes have been fun, nice to see new people trying to run nodes and discover Autonomi. I feel like some of the OG’s don’t like that focus get away from the core development focus, they don’t like Discord and so on. But I think it is great and fun way to bring in new people and attract people.

Different conflicts in the communtiy have been going on for years and it is just something essential to being humans. The most important thing is that most/all people work to make Autonomi network as amazing as possible and that seems to be the case a lot of the times.

Soon around launch the community has served it’s purpose, people will move on to new adventures, some develop apps together some meeting at future conferences and so on.

When Autonomi is released, the community as we knows it today has served it’s purpose and will no longer be the same. But we still will have the memories being a part and creating something amazing together.

“Nothing lasts forever, for all good things it’s true”

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‘sprint’-board?

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Hey guys I’m selling pitchforks and torches if anyone is interested! Only kidding.

For years we had either nothing, a centralized test network, or a crazy from the ground up over sophisticated experimental rework, and now that we are back to basics and have a semi functional and lightweight truly decentralized network with home nodes and relatively easy connections everyone is losing their damn minds. What the hell is going on guys? I can tell you. Now there is something real there is something to be critical and impatient for.

Yes the management style is opaque but it’s done this way to allow for some mystery, excitement, and for some errors in the background.

These are people, well intentioned, that have been trying to respect our commitment and this is how everyone acts?

Third party developers being left in the dark has been a frustration I understand so I can’t say some of my patience hasn’t been tested either but this is quickly devolving when it is a ridiculous time to do so. Let’s focus on how we can help instead of focusing on the negatives, pointing fingers and being overly critical.

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Yea, kind felt like a lions den there for a while. I am glad to hear the opinions and so on, but I must say, I back @bux 100%, if you could see her in action and how she does navigate very tough territory trying to get stuff done, it’s enlightening. She is not as vocal on this forum as I have been and that is perfectly fine IMO. I know my time on the forum does cost an awful lot and in previous years I was here thinking the network was progressing in ways that it clearly was not. In fact the design was altered dramatically and the team then stuck rigid to their guns that it had to be a totally ordered network. That cost us extremely and to the point the company was essentially bust. I had to move very quickly and recover that, but the tech debt was immense.

Now we are not in that position and the team do listen and work together for the same goals. It’s totally different, but another MASSIVE thing we were missing was the business side of things. That’s speaking with partners, setting up exchanges and handling the investors as well as building the parts of the team we were missing. All of that is being handled very well now, IMO. I do get the token holders and this communities frustration as it has been quiet, but I feel it almost had to be, otherwise it’s empty rhetoric.

The move to focus on targets has been hard for some and that’s due to years of no pressure. Now take that team and try and apply pressure and you can imagine how hard that is. i.e. We have a critical emergency X can you fix. X replies, I am taking the rest of the day off, see you tomorrow. That’s a change that’s hard to make and does create hassle. I would be very strict and angry but Bux and co are the opposite, they try and work with that kind of thing.

This is working as I say, the team are getting there and transitioning from an R&D team where we get it when we get it and we are ready, to let’s get this thing done.

I would say the transition is not complete, but it’s almost there and incredibly hard to do. The management of this has been hard and taken its toll on every side, but it’s happening.

I feel very sad when I see folk being so angry as I know these folk from years of forum activity and debate, but perhaps it’s because I see behind the curtain that I am sad. I just know the effort and sweat being put in to make this not only live, but make it huge and profitable for everyone.

It may be that there are casualties, some folk may think we can just keep getting more money and pay salaries forever without launching, but a while back I said the technical issues were done and they are. We are past the large hurdle’s we had to cross and from a business perspective there will have to be some more changes that have been hard to swallow, but for the project to succeed we will have to do them.

So it’s really a case of Assemble now" and push this over the line.

Bugs, I expect bugs, delays, I hope not, but possibly, but most of all I want to see this team get there and to get there fast and furious and if we do delay then I don’t want the fury to stop until we are launched. We simply cannot just sit about and work like we are IBM Engineers of old, we do need that startup mentality and that’s hard to get and for some it may be impossible, but we need it.

In any case I am hearing everything now .I am not 100% or close to it and have good and bad days (mostly bad still), but I do ask everyone, push it over the line, however and whenever we get there. It’s without doubt the last leg.

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Bux is such a rare gemstone, I think of great people like Steve Jobs when thinking of her.

She smart, very good with logic, strategic, people, goal oriented, making important connections, inspiring, great energy and also help doing support on discord similar to Jobs.

There are very few people like her in the world.

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Oh so you didn’t buy a whole stack of laptops only to find out that you underestimated how difficult it is to remote manage a linux compute farm ?

My strategy on the other hand worked so well that at least a dozen people both in the wave 1 and wave 2 top 15 have copied my way of working.

My goal was never to make money of it, and I’m not leveraging beyond my means.
My goal was to boost the network with actual working nodes and maybe earn a bit to keep the whole shebang running after launch for a couple of months to help bootstrap the network a bit (spoiler: it’s not going anywhere with non-working home-nodes and crappy vps).

Besides that, me and a couple of people have been running thousands and thousands of ownerless nodes to fund happybeings insatiable hunger for nano’s.

I could do all this because I know how to run things at scale, and there was a quite clear rewards program with which I could recoup the costs (or at least, so I thought).

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Please not…

… But maybe launch could be launch of a release candidate with feature complete api and a serious testing period of 3 months +necessary changes to api+data types can be done through this time…

… Only few people have collected their coin so far - transactions with many cashnotes in and one large out are troublesome (receives from collected nanos loop for hours sometimes days failing right now… And that will be the only way to earn coin +spend them later after launch…) wallets are more or less untested…

… We still have single chunks that stall up/downloads for minutes and don’t get rid of the nodes that hurt the network I think…

… The api would be ‘feature complete’ on launch… Pretty much untested…

… Last time node side chunk encryption was activated nodes OOMed out… (still not reintroduced and therefore untested)

… Last time additional websocket ports for webassembly connections where activated the nodes OOMed out iirc… So again something possibly troublesome introduced 6 weeks before launch…

… Jackpot nodes still are a thing… (just not being paid by the uploaders as it looks)…

… We have no protection from bad actors creating jackpot nodes on purpose…

… Network collapse and reboot is not tested so far (the community doesn’t even know the plan on how this is supposed to function)

… That’s just the most obvious issues on the top of my head… Real launch and risking all maid/emaid to be lost in 8 weeks looks just unnecessary risky and to be frank insane to me…

(and if we’re honest we didn’t find bugs in this beta that weren’t /wouldn’t have been found in community networks… We even had the jackpot nodes many times already… If you want I can keep 2k nodes running for free for the 3 months after launch… And I’m sure others would be willing to do similar… )

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Yes David I see a strong case for delaying launch to avoid replicating the rewards program type problems at scale.

There are many things not yet in place that we’re scheduled in the past, others that seem to have been overlooked in planning, yet the launch date has never been reconsidered. Or rather the reasons for not doing so have never been adequately explained in the face of mounting reasons for doing so.

I can imagine very good reasons for keeping to that date, and you mention some just now.

From out here though it looks as if inside Autonomi there is no possibility to recognise issues and acknowledge that the date might need to be pushed back. All we ever hear is that it will be fine and there no reason to reconsider as if we’re deluded, and if only we could see inside Autonomi we would agree. I don’t buy that. Early on I went along despite my doubts but there’s been an accumulation of evidence which painted a different picture.

I’m not suggesting Autonomi share everything. I understand something of running a business, commercial development, even a bit of marketing as well as how to develop test and deliver complex software products to a large user base.

I’m asking for credible serious engagement, an explanation that makes sense. It never needed to be a massive time thief - just serious and credible.

If there’s no money maybe you can’t actually say that but while I know there’s a limit, I don’t have a sense that this is the critical issue.

What it has looked like is an inability to see or acknowledge the scale of the problems and an unrealistic focus on areas of commendable progress (in presentation and strategy, as well as development). Perhaps everyone is too busy and too focused, I don’t know. Or maybe I am deluded.

But if so I’m not the only one.

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Surely though I can help out and I do try. But need a chance to prove all that to folks. I am happy to listen and while I am not the ceo I am still a team member and can help.

So when folk need specific things done wrt the core tech I can be all over it in terms of rewards I am not the man. That would be too much. But the tech stuff I am eager to hear .

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I hear you. The jackpot nodes are an issue being worked on pretty intensely by looking into the payment algorithm. It’s not a hack or theft.

Any issues like missing data and so on I hope having an api allows us to easily build apps and perhaps some that only look for missing data.

Websocket issues we can address for certain but maybe not for launch. I think that’s ok

Keep on poking though there is a helpdesk being setup so we will see but I need the team to fire into GitHub issues too

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That’s a big positive and to my mind the rewards scheme is not a big problem in itself. It’s an example, symptoms that are a warning that reflects the same problem with the overall delivery and fixation on October launch.

So you helping out on specifics is great, but not what we’re concerned about right now. It’s way beyond that, and I’m pretty much done again trying to get that across.

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True - but without being able to limit/know what I will pay or if all my coin might be gone with one chunk I won’t dare to upload a single byte to the live network…(yes it’s trivial to change the wallet/client to include the feature… But for now it’s not there and untested)

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I agree one hundred percent. Launch :rocket: is huge, but also just a baby step. We must take that first step.

For my part, and for what I understand of the tech I’ve seen huge progress over beta on home nodes.

The team is small, true, and fighting an uphill battle everyday, and have little time to be hanging around the forum. I get it.

But I trust David, Bux and team to deliver. They are delivering.

OGs are the most dedicated of them all, but also the hardest to please, I appreciate them, and if I could, I would give them all a hug. I think they need one. Cheers

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