Yes, more tired of the nonsense that happens when bitcoin rises fast or drops fast. The correlation with the pile-ons are apparent.
It does not really bother me too much, but the arrogance of demanding answers to hollow logic is quite weird, and I, for one, find it to be a bit of a quandary. I am not sure what drives people to condescension and misrepresentation. I suspect it’s a game and one best watched from afar.
The lecturing, I can understand more, it’s just pure ego.
I recon it takes ll sorts and they express themselves in all sorts of ways. Who knows?
It may be obvious, but I want to say it nevertheless:
Feedback from community should be used wisely.
Implementing every suggestion from community may be as bad as not listening to community at all.
From my personal statistics, MaidSafe listen to feedback more than other teams.
I don’t know if it is the perfect amount of feedback processing however.
by the way about 14 years waiting I have understanding because, they plan something and gets (as I understood) that is too much complex and start again from skratch? with a lot of more easy model, so…
I didn’t mean it so literally like that; of course adding millions of devs to a single Github project or dev chat channel would be difficult to manage.
You have to take a bigger picture view, like just releasing a captivating MVP (with a few killer decentralized apps) that gains the attention of the media and world would simply push the world faster towards decentralization.
People would see what’s possible, companies would start putting money towards it, devs would start trying all types of ideas / networks / forks / decentralized internets, with different Pay Producer rewards economic ideas, and a great network would eventually emerge from all the different efforts, and unleash the potential of the world.
With the greatest of respect, please consider my original idea:
releasing an imperfect, but compelling MVP
Fixing all the bugs, making an alive, autonomously-updating, Pay Producer economics, self-healing brain of a network needn’t be upon your shoulders. Atlas only lasted so long,
If your amazing team took what they knew, made a good-enough baaaaaasic network that can just run a killer app (SafeNet YouTube? SafeNet eBook library? Have to think) and capture the world medias attention, this will push the masses into making a SAFE with all the futuristic rocket ship bells and whistles. (Ethereum alone has almost 20k active devs, and that’s only one crypto. And crypto is only one part of development! And it requires learning solidity! But Rust already has a big community! On and on and on. The world is here to help you; who knows, some genius kid in Pakistan or Nigeria may see everything, and spring up to make something a hundred times faster in a new language, completely differently, and we have to be able to step aside and congratulate them and benefit from it. But they aren’t working on it yet because they haven’t heard of it or been inspired by you yet)
That’s how MaidSafe influences the universe and achieves its cosmic destiny and we reach AI-fused transhuman heaven . Not by bug squashing in the eternal depths of development hell.
I know this sounds jokingly, and I’m keeping it light but I’m very serious about the message here. MaidSafe just has to find the “Key” (MVP) to “unlock” the world’s potential.
(The smaller and lighter your product is, the less potential liability / target is on your back as well, since all you did was release a little idea, basically. Not responsible for the whole network)
I might not be anyone qualified in anything, but I also might be very right here,
I’m finding this thread very interesting reading. Not so much from an agreeing or disagreeing perspective but more so from a viewpoint of observing how we engage with the sensitive topics of ‘how long til launch?’ and ‘when can I expect to see a sizeable return on my investment?’. I really enjoy reading how well some of the comments articulate frustrations or explanations but am also a bit disappointed with how some clearly very intelligent people seem to quite deliberately reframe a comment or opinion into something else that’s very easy to condescend to and doesn’t progress the discussion in any meaningful way. We may find what others have to say irritating or unhelpful but the approach of ‘Oh, so what you’re really saying is…and what I’d say to that is…’ never helps to edge a conversation forward.
I don’t thing the title ‘Is Maidsafe scared to launch?’ very helpful in prompting a decent discussion. Although I suppose I understand the intention I can see how it may rub devs up the wrong way. I’ve never had the impression that anyone’s scared, tentative or other synonym to launch; I have zero tech background at all and even I understand from the weekly updates that the code is buggy and needs a lot of refinement.
In regards to return on investment, nobody here is entitled to anything and we all invest at our own risk. Clearly it’s frustrating if you’ve been invested long term and things haven’t come into fruition within a timeframe you hoped for but that’s on each of us individually and not anyone else.
The question of ‘how long til launch’ is however in my opinion not unreasonable to ask at this stage. Last year a video was posted by Maidsafe titled ‘When will the Safe Network be finished? It’s closer than you think’. For a non-tech person like myself some of the plain language such as ‘pre-flight checks’ led me to believe that lift-off wasn’t too far down the road at all! I definitely understood that there were testnet issues that meant it would take more time than anticipated but I also had the impression from the video that the hard stuff had been done and it was pretty much a case of stitching the pieces together. I’m very aware even as I type that I’m speaking metaphorically about something I don’t understand at all so appreciate it isn’t quite as simple as stitching but I hope you get where I’m coming from!
@dirvine First off, I really do salute your many years of effort in making this happen. I don’t know you and most probably will never meet you but I’m going with the impression from your posts over the years that you’re a very decent, hard-working and committed man. I take my hat off to you sir for your tireless dedication to this project. Take my advice as you please; I hope I’m not overstepping! We all suffer with ego and arrogance and it does very often show up in discussion threads here and all over the internet as we’re not in close human proximity to one another and so there’s a tendency to be a little reckless or insensitive with our expression. But if I may, I’d encourage you to just distil what’s worth distilling from these sorts of discussions and make good with it in whatever way you can. I appreciate your engagement with these threads if only to show you’re not shying away from sensitive topics but you need to rise above the irritations of disgruntled investors so as not to blur your focus in bringing this project to completion. Good luck and God speed.
A “good enough” network would be something that people can contribute network resources to, for free (because economics adds crazy layers of complexity), and run decentralized apps that are as decentralized as the network itself is.
So someone would only need to write the code for a decentralized app while the network itself just runs constantly. It would need enough basic APIs in common languages for people to be able to write, say, the Angular apps or anything else, that can organize, sort & present network data.
But the fact that the network runs without judging any data by default makes it an amazing step forward for freedom.
Then make a simple killer app like eBook library or decentralized Twitter, with opt-in moderation lists (basically, you can subscribe to moderators you trust, who filter data, if you want to. But if not you can see anything, Privacy, Security, Freedom)
I get that uploading infinite spam might be an issue but a possible super quick fix could be that people need to run a node and host their own uploads at the beginning, unless other people are offering certain amounts of free hosting publicly.
Also, no need for the condescending tone, as if you understand everything perfectly and anyone else is just “new here so their understanding is flawed.” A closed mind can never learn or grow in life,
Such a MVP network wouldn’t need to be called SAFE, with all the pressure of being a form of the real SAFE, but could be given some little name like “Alt Launch” or something, being just an experimental endeavor to build more community and experiences in the real world. Because any venture needs exposure and to be looked at by many eyes and from many angles. Lessons and breakthroughs with such an experiment could definitely bring back new lessons to core SAFE development.
At a bare minimum, such an exciting and “launched” thing would get the naysayers off your back, because nobody can say you haven’t launched anything real or usable in the past decade and a half.
And more than that, it could possibly justify further funding
If the network could be persuaded to stay up then that Telegram bot and similar could be a very cheap GUI to spread awareness right now.
At least until we get the browser back…
Time and a little money for server resources. But mostly time. And then sufficient people willing to try to connect using only a CLI and with no expectation of instant gratification graphics to make it worthwhile - and who dont get pissed off when it breaks again - and again.
So if the Telegram bot could get updated to handle DBCs then we can reach an awful lot more folk and hopefully trigger some interest in some small %.
Granted our audience may be only those who will keep coming back to look at a faucet that dispenses (for now) worthless tokens - but its a lot bigger audience than we have now…
@Josh@SmoothOperatorGR and @folaht are the guys who put up comnets every week or so. If the bot can easily get the necessary changes to handle DBCs then we should be able to run it on the next comnet.
I’m learning angular, maybe i could make a little open source PWA at some point that can visualize a wallet and do a little CSS animation showing how big your test wallet is, and little animations for coins coming into or going out of it. Would safe-cli work with that?
All the basic “launch” GUI apps are well advanced, quite possibly complete - well visually at least. @JimCollinson presented designs a few months back. The browser and all the GUI goodness is waiting on the underlying network code.
Only if your ASCII-art is an awful lot better than mine…
What I am on about here is leveraging the Telegram bot as a cheap GUI interface to reach a much wider audience.
We need a (kinda) working comnet and a working bot.
The network only kinda needs to work cos the Telegram bot is primarily a faucet. And folk have got used to faucets (when they were a thing) not giving coins 24/7. But you keep going back to see if the faucet got refilled. So downtime is regrettable but not a disaster to the guy who just wants a freebie. All we are interested in is folk getting some tokens and generating more network traffic than we have had so far. A different pattern of traffic - many smaller data transfers as opposed to the larger files we have been storing and retrieving.
If we also get folk exploring the other non-faucet commands that the bot provides then thats a welcome bonus.
your CSS skills may allow you to enhance the bot.
I know very little about bots TBH, but they cant be that hard
I guess my potential angular project would have nothing to do with the telegram bot, but be more like a web app that can display things in the browser instead, like my wallet CSS animations, and use safe-cli directly, instead of having anything to do with the telegram bot.
. Not by bug squashing in the eternal depths of development hell.
