I think MaidSafe isn’t scared of anything, but this thread surely coincides with the price falling.
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I suspect the challenge is that this would require an expert not only in the specific programming aspects of the project, but also in the engineering of this new technology. Given the time and effort involved this would translate to hiring a really good programmer to join the team and help out for an extended period of time. Which is what Maidsafe seems to do already to the best of their ability in the people they bring in. I doubt there are any experts out there in terms of the engineering in what Maidsafe is trying to do given how new and unique the project is. Unless they already worked for Maidsafe, which defeats the point.
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It would be interesting to get an update of Maidsafe financial status, though obviously not required (and maybe not ultimately helpful?). Especially given there are indications that BTC price in dollars is breaking down. I think we could see BTC $13K and MAID $0.10 before the end of this year and maybe by the end of next month. Not sure if that matters at all. It doesn’t to me, but I know at one point Maidsafe was sensitive to these prices.
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I’m skeptical of BTC price going much lower. It’s been around this level for some time and there seems to be good support at this level. There are certainly a lot of manipulators out there who want the price to go lower, but I don’t think it will go down much more.
Maid price could do anything though. volumes are low as usual and doesn’t take much to drive the price up or down.
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No pekes here . . only bloodhounds . .
Im with you, sort of. The project is probably too big to swallow in one bite. Maybe it should have been broken into modules rather than trying to make everything fit all at once. But who am I to comment on something I know little about.
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Perhaps breaking it up could have worked - but I’m not sure how as it seems to require most all of the parts working together to be useful.
So you can break apart a bicycle, but nobody wants a bicycle wheel (assuming parts are not interchangeable with other tech). So there was maybe no way to raise funds for parts that none could use until all of them were built and put together.
Maid project is literally a ‘moonshot’ … or like the Wright brothers building the first airplane. Nobody though wants a wing, or some landing gear, or a rocket engine … people want the actual bike, airplane, rocket.
When I say nobody, I mean there’s no market demand. I’m sure there is somebody who wants some parts, but not enough to justify a decade plus of funding.
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Months ago there were modules in separate repositories.
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Split by the way may be made to better understand how individual parts works.
When developers removed previous version of payments, I was hoping that they make network working before integrating new versions of payments. But not with my luck )
I’ve seen many of these kinds of topics over the years (I believe I started some of them myself). Generally speaking the replies to the question being asked are:
- it’s a moonshot
- it’s new tech, you can’t plan that
- i’m here for the tech, not the money
- etc…
I don’t think these answers are really helpful to be honest. The only thing these replies do is downplaying on a valid critique. A project with a 14 year long history and without a product should be criticized for not having delivered. Not for the sake of venting frustration, but to learn from it.
When the whole process of maidsafe started, there were estimates and ideas on how long this might take. Obviously, it didn’t happen, the question is why didn’t it happen and how can we learn from it?
If we don’t criticize on why there is no product at the horizon, then there is little discussion and self reflection, especially given that the community is always very protective of the project.
For example, a year or 2 ago, we started talking about Fleming and Maxwell. If we look at the current updates, we only see updates on bug squashing and an explanation of how some parts of the network work. But no updates on how everything integrates in the plan for Fleming and what still needs to be done to get there. A question would be, why is that? I think it is a valid question (but probably the answer to this will be: you cannot plan moonshots or something alike).
Also, on safenetwork.tech everything (except farming) is set to complete and ready, if i look at the updates, i see a lot of bug squashing still done in all of them. How does that work?
Another valid question, about 2 years ago(?) there was a fundraise to finance the future of maidsafe. It was estimated that maidsafe could operate for approx 2 years and that by then there should be a revenue to facilitate continuing development. Given that planning hasn’t been met, how does this impact the network and its development?
In summary, to be able to plan better, you need to look what you did wrong in your previous planning.
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Perfect software has not yet been invented. Bugs will exist until perfection is reached.
I see a lot of experts commenting here on how things should work and with certainty. I strongly encourage these experts to quickly launch Safe, seriously launch even part of it and show everyone how it’s done.
Or, perhaps help out, there is plenty of folk working hard to get this done and willing to take on help, especially from those apparently more knowledgeable.
I am encouraged that so many could do this job much simpler, quicker, and with phenomenal reporting of each step they will take in inventing this. I look forward to seeing many alternative working Safe networks coming down the pipeline. It can only be great for us all and for the world.
Let’s see these soon, and we can all get behind the best one. I would be 100% supportive of the Safe network, wherever it comes from.
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The time duration is not relevant as subjective. Criticism is good if it is constructive. If you think punishing criticism is useful, then you don’t understand human nature - or you do, and you are here to disrupt the work-flow.
What is the actual criticism though? I don’t think you have any - I think you are just frustrated and maybe don’t know how to deal with it.
So, I will try to translate that … you want better explainations than the weekly technical updates offer because you aren’t able to follow what’s going on.
If that’s the case, then you are invested in the wrong project. The core of good investing is to invest in what you can grasp - at least to some extent. If you can’t grasp what’s going on with the project, then it’s not something you can evaluate yourself - so you can’t really understand it’s potential.
You seem to want Maidsafe to hire a team of interpreters to hold your hand and explain to you in a language you can understand. But everyone has differing levels of comprehension - for a project like this, they’d have to double their budget to hire a lot of hand-holders … it’s needless to say it, but that’s just not practical with their funds.
It may seem callous and I certainly don’t want to chase away funding for the project here, but if you can’t work out what’s going on, then you are a fool to be invested in the project.
They have done so. Mistakes have been made - (as they are in any business) and the whole of the company has been altered to facilitate better/faster development. Again, you don’t really seem to have paid attention these past years and so again I wonder why you are invested when you don’t know what’s happened or what going on.
I’m not trying to annoy anyone - just some tough love. Hope it helps.
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Other then saying that I’m wrong, you haven’t really given any substantial replies to the message i’m trying to communicate. In fact, you even partially agree with me:
criticism is good as long as it is constructive. However, my feeling is dat when criticism is given over here, it is put aside by stating ( * it’s new tech, you can’t plan that, * If you don’t understand it, you shouldn’t invest in it, etc.). Instead we should be looking, why was the criticism posted and what is the cause of it, and can we resolve it and hence make us improve on our weaknesses (yes every organisation has them, also maidsafe )
in addition, I am a bit disappointed by the reply of @dirvine, nobody was saying that somebody could do the job better, specific examples were laid out to explain a point where I do think maidsafe has a weakness (in my opinion it is planning and communication, specifically where these 2 items meet).
Throwing the comments out of the window by saying, well you do it quicker then does not help in improving on a team (which is already awesome).
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It’s not right or wrong here. It’s understanding or not. I’m not sure that we are really understanding each other. I think my reply was correct and covered all the points you made. You don’t think I did I suppose … so clearly we are not understanding one another.
As far as I can see, you aren’t making any specific constructive criticism. My perspective here is that you are simply waving your hand at some general frustration you are having with the Maidsafe’s communication of what’s been going on … I addressed that in my previous comment, your reply hasn’t changed anything.
We are at an impasse IMO.
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My criticism is twofold
-
communication and planning, which i try to explain using several examples. (If that isn’t constructive, please show me why it isn’t)
-
Negative feedback/criticism is, in this forum, more often than not replied to with the same rhetoric of dismiss. Case in example is that you flag my criticism as just frustration.
I think ‘negative’ feedback always comes from having a negative feeling about the subject in question, otherwise it wouldn’t be negative.
It’s general criticism and not constructive as you aren’t spelling out a clear solution to specific issues.
E.g. You might say: “The website roadmap isn’t detailed enough nor being updated often enough. Perhaps Maidsafe team could spend 10 minutes a week working on that.”
So in that example, if your specific concern were the roadmap, then you give a specific and perhaps reasonable suggestion as to how it might be remedied. That’s what I define as specific (actionable) constructive criticism.
The Maid team are busy people and they can’t put their valuable time into generally attempting to improve all communication across the board - too much time/energy/funding. So any improvements need to be guided by the community specifically with suggestions and maybe some good community polls.
Then they will have been given a clear and actionable path forward to address community concerns.
– These are just my opinions of course. I don’t speak for Maidsafe.
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My critique is broader than the examples given as they are examples of a behaviour. First step in handling criticism is aknowledging it. I can come up with all kinds of solutions but i’m not the one that will execute it so solutions should be source driven. And if the source does not recognize or aknowledge the critique it makes no sense to put effort in a solution.
I truely hope the safe network will release somewhere in the future (hopefully sooner than later of course) as I truely think it is a solution to the hot mess that we call internet right now.
Though, my concerns are that even with a product, communication, planning and marketing will stand in the way of having succes. I’m making these comments in the hopes that they help with self reflection, but if it isn’t wanted, fine as well. It is up to the team to do or not do something with it.
You refer to “experts” on here in your above post. It looks like you’re mocking them and are not grateful for their points of view. This is community based project right? So heed your experts. You suggest they go launch the SafeNetwork themselves. Consider how many resources you’ve burned through with your approach when you are commenting about these experts.
Do you regularly go out and ask for help from other communities and projects? For example are you in the Rust forum on Reddit posting asking for help with the bugs the project is running into? Are you at the Rust conferences talking about what Maidsafe is trying to accomplish attracting talent and ideas? You are the leadership for this project whether you like it or not. The CEO of Radix can be found all over the space building bridges talking to others getting outside opinions.
You said you were open to having someone look at the whole project. You asked who would do it? I made some suggestions. You didn’t respond as if you were not serious when you said you’d be open to having people critique the approach and strategy. Do you want me to contact people I know here in Silicon Valley? If you are serious I will. What are your suggestions? How can we get pushback against your approach? Why I think it is needed is that after 14 years you’ve not accomplished a network that will run for a day. Don’t you think you owe it to others in the community to have a fresh set of eyes look at what you are doing after 14 years? You’ve stuck to the principles of the project and protected it. Maybe it is time to have someone take a look at operations and approach. You can still oversee the principles.
The foundation is being applied for but no rough estimate as the when we will have a network. It looks weird from the outside.
If we had funding for 2 years, 2 years ago then how much funding do we have left?
You’ve implemented a 4 day work week. The rest of Earth works on a five day work week. How do you objectively measure what is better? Where most people work we can’t afford to lose 4 days a month. You might say you get more out of people on a 4 day work week. Startups work more than 5 days a week.
Can you answer my questions about network stability over the past year? Are internal networks getting incrementally more stable. How do you measure this?
Why is it every thing on the roadmap is checked off except farming and the network is still can’t run for a day? I’m sure you have an answer but point is it looks strange from the outside. If the parts of the network are not working then they shouldn’t be checked off. Are they just ideas or sound code and structure?
If you want me to contact people I know that run teams on software development I will. It looks like you need someone to tell you what you’ve done well and what can be done better.
I’m going to get hate for my comments. Those that don’t criticize you will say I have over stepped. But at this point there is nothing to lose. We are coming to the end of this project. It is sad as the world needs this now more than ever. You know someone posted about the team being targeted and you liked a comment that things are being done legally. Well in the woke world you can be legally disconnected from your bank and society which is why we needed this network 5 years ago. People suggest it’s the price that is causing people to question things. Yes for some. But for others we see the direction of the world and no product after 14 years. Come on David. Please open up to a change of approach. What has been done for 14 years has no working network.
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Your car is having problems, runs for a few minutes then quits. You take it to a mechanic and you explain … then instead of asking when they can look at the car to evaluate the problems, you simply say when can it be fixed.
Obviously the mechanic has no idea as the mechanic doesn’t know what the problem is, only has a vague explaination of the symptom.
Now I grant that Maid team are the effective owners and mechanic on this car, but regardless, a bug is a bug and there are a lot of difficulties in aligning the mechanisms of something so complex. Hence there is no way to give any timelime with an HONEST RESPONSE.
David, I am sure, is frustrated too and tired of having this same discussion every couple of months. I certainly am … it’s always the same arguments and the same responses and few seem to take away any hard lessons from them.
- There is no way to predict a timeline HONESTLY for a project like this. It’s worse than a car with problems as cars are well-understood engineering.
- If you want to change something, then do something concrete - make specific actionable suggestions. Hand-wavy general complaints aren’t useful.
- If you really don’t understand the difficulties here, then why are you invested in this project? You may as well go skydiving without knowing how to check your parachute.
Again, not trying to be annoying … but if you want to progress your criticisms then get down to the nitty gritty nuts and bolts - break things down to the specifics. If you can’t it may be because it’s not possible to do so - some things are simply beyond human ability at any point in time.
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I never made it past this quote.
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