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Thatâs not the argument. The argument is analogous to cats & dogs both being mamals, and both being predators, so calling one âmamalâ more than âpredatorâ makes no sense.
Autonomiâs native token has far more in common with other crypto currencies than a centralised digital currency, which is permissioned and scarce by only by decree.
The Native token is permissionless, mathematically constrained supply, and has utility on a decentralised network.
I think itâs very odd to argue Autonomiâs native token isnât âcryptoâ, just as most Bitcoin Maxis say Bitcoin isnât âcryptoâ, which to me also seems like an inaccurate categorisation.
Anyway, not a big issue, just wanted to challenge / better understand what seems to me is a strange & unnecessary categorisation that you regularly make.
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Again you take a digital token definition which is not associated with any use case and make the use cases the definition. banks use digital currency so all digital currency is controlled by central authority. Cats are an animal so all animals are cats.
And crypto is more than just transferring coins. It is the centralised process of what ends up a few nodes relatively speaking creating the coins and transferring them
I specifically stated âcentralised digital currenciesâ before I made that statement about bank digital currency, so clearly wasnât saying it about all digital currency.
Anyway, youâre just trolling with your fallacious fallacacy fantacies, and my point is simple: saying a decentralised token thatâs secured by cryptography & has utility on a decentralised network is not âcryptoâ seems forced & inaccurate, if âcryptoâ means something along the lines of:
âA cryptocurrency , crypto-currency , or crypto is a digital currency designed to work as a medium of exchange through a computer network that is not reliant on any central authority, such as a government or bank, to uphold or maintain itâ.
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You know that is just an argument winning move.
Not the way you wrote it. You were qualifying the term âdigital currencyâ otherwise you argument defeated it self by limiting it to just one use case.
That is the whole of you statement. used the adjective âcentralisedâ to denote what digital currency is.
But as I said if you are just saying its one type of use case then your argument defeats itself.
In effect then you are saying that the native token has more in common with crypto than this particular type (use case) of digital currency. It a logical fallacy to claim because of that it is a crypto coin/token. The definition of digital currency includes what the native token actually is. But the native token is not mined, or staked, or any proof of âwhateverâ is done which characterises crypto currency. If that crypto work/proof doesnât exist then its not crypto since no crypto work was done to create it.
No need to be a crypto coin to achieve this. Crypto coin is just one way of doing this.
A crypto centred person will view all alternative forms of payments as crypto
Iâm not bothered about winning the argument.
I want to understand your categorisations as they make no sense to me.
No; I used the word âcentralisedâ to limit that statement to centralised digital currencies like the use case you referred to in banking.
I already stated that crypto currencies are within the broad category of âdigital currenciesâ, so it wouldnât make sense for me to somehow try to say all digital currencies are centralised.
But this wrangling doesnât achieve anything other than show weâre not communicating well.
Can you please clarify the following to me so I can better understand your view on categorisations:
- Why do you consider the ERC20 Network token as âcryptoâ and the Native Token not crypto?
- By whom? Why do you consider the Native Token 99% closer to digital than crypto?
What do you mean by digital token here when crypto tokens are a type of digital token?
Neither is the ERC20 Network Token, though it is secured by a network that utilises proof of stake. Autonomi surely uses a kind of âproof of resourceâ, because if nodes donât do their job in providing data they should hold, they will be shunned & wonât be able to take part in validation of transactions?
Also, as I understand it, with the planned âtoken emissionsâ the Native Token will be âmined/farmed/earnedâ, where the ERC20 will only ever be air-dropped / swapped⌠does that make Native more crypto than ERC20 by this methodology?
Definitions can be tricky!
Look its fine if you want to keep to the equivalence of the native to crypto. You asked and I attempted to point out the differences.
The team and David and Bux have all said straight out that this is not a crypto project (incl native token) and for good reason because it is not.
Iâm not going to try and convince you otherwise if you donât want to change. I dunno maybe since I lived through the whole creation of the concept of digital currencies (grew out of non computerised) and saw centralised, non centralised, controlled and non controlled digital currencies/tokens and how they are used today that is easy for me to see the distinction. And that when crypto projects came they were another form of digital currencies/tokens secured by crypto work. Even ERC20 uses crypto âworkâ in the L2 nodes transferring the coins/tokens.
So I understand, no problem, but people do sense there is a difference and I eluded to the reason why to Bux.
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Thatâs a very diplomatic reply @Bux 
But there are still no answers, nor did you confirm if they even exist yet.
I donât want to be harsh - really I donât. But the time is approaching for me personally where I need to see that the team really understand what they are doing on a business and marketing level - I know they can code, but thatâs not going to build a network.
What is a network? Itâs not just code - thatâs only a part of our network⌠A network is people. People are THE critical part of any network, be it online for just out in the wild with regular meetups and/or trade.
So the team is nearing completion of the code for our online 
network and thatâs fabulous ⌠but we need to another team to be working on the most important part - bringing in the people to take part in the network.
I donât know off hand what the current market-cap for is (as a network), but the market price and total token allocation would indicate itâs in the range of US$200MM.
How is that valuation justified? Markets are not always correct. Currently there is a huge amount of lock-in for multiple reasons that I would expect you to be well aware of ⌠but at launch many of these tokens will unlock and be technically sellable ⌠How do we keep then from being sold and how do we bring in enough users to counter what is sold such that our market-cap doesnât drop to something like US$10MM â OR LESS!! What is the value proposition here. A network has value but at launch it seems we have a lot of competition in the storage market and we have little differentiation and many barriers to entry.
This means we need to identify our target audiences beforehand and prepare marketing campaigns for each audience - and budget for that. Has that been done? Is it underway? IMO, this is the most critical part of launching a real network, as with no people, there is no network and so I humbly suggest that a team be built to tackle this asap if it hasnât already been done.
Why is this so important? Because this marketing plan is part of a feedback system to the code development team. They need to develop a model for the networkâs growth and insure that it can grow stably. As Iâve pointed out in the past if growth slows down after a time with permanent data, the network will have data loss, which will destroy our reputation and could lead to the loss of the network entirely as people will just leave the network causing a cascade collapse.
Further if we canât attract enough users (and so token buyers) in the beginning and give hope for growth then the market-cap will collapse and that will remove all liquidity and so funding for the foundation. At which point the dream is probably dead. The aim is for a decentralized network, but such needs to prove itself and be adapted and bug-fixed over a few years before it has any real hope of becoming self-sustaining.
I hope this helps you to understand the gravity of the work ahead.
Cheers
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Sorry, I wasnât trying to be offhand, was being sincere as these are the very aspects iâm focused on and also specifically in regards to customer experience and value transfer - upload to host, to token path from there, to cost of upload etc, where years of thinking needs to be fused with practicalities of the real world environment including choice, perception, audience/uploader requirements/expectations and commercial sense for those using, building on or holding token for the network.
Being open I was wanting to have the White Paper ready with much of the salient points covered, and to walk this and the roll out plans (where I assure you we have a strategy), on last nights stages - instead I turned up off the back of other calls and without full alignment on content, for which I do apologise - I hate rocking up under prepared. As soon as these elements are finalised (as much as they can be), I will share and hopefully answer a lot to what you are rightfully pointing to here 
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In the early stages post-TGE, the focus really needs to be on solidifying partnerships that will drive the use cases for the network. Itâs not just about creating hype or marketing to the masses; itâs about laying a strong foundation with key players who have the power to generate real value and utility on the network. Once these partnerships are in place and they start leveraging the network for their own operations, it will naturally bring in more users and demand.
Itâs smart that Bux and the team are prioritising these critical 1:1 conversations over mass marketing, especially when the infrastructure is still being built out. Pushing general public outreach at this stage would be like selling the idea of a nationwide EV charging network to consumers in a world where there are no EV car companies. The real growth will come when these partners create their own burning platforms and ecosystems that drive adoption organically.
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I appreciate the open and honest thread (as always), as well as the perspectives from all sides.
While we are technologists, engineers, and creatives at heart⌠we are no strangers to the vital role of marketing either. We take it seriously and have been laying some foundations for a time.
With that in mind, Iâd like to introduce you to another member of our team @Gill_McLaughlin, our new Head of Marketing 
, who can explain what lies ahead, and how we are going to get thereâŚ
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Hi Everyone, fab to be here!
As Jim mentioned, we are eager to respond to your questions around Marketing and give you some details on what is in the works to drive out awareness and engagement across our key audience groups up to and through launch of the network.
First of all, being clear on our objectives from a marketing perspective and what we need it to achieve is vital aligned to overall Autonomi business objectives: We want to drive new users into our ecosystem: from new node operators to builders and new strategic partners that will bring big data to us.
Aligning our marketing objectives ensures that we spend budgets and resources in the right direction that will add value and influence the key levers that we want to impact.
In the run up to and through launch we will be communicating to new users and groups in existing and new channels as well as putting the budget behind things like sponsored advertising campaigns. We will leverage our brand message to make wider markets more aware and showcase our key reasons to believe. We will be announcing new strategic partnerships and attending events where we will be talking to new groups to bring volume into the ecosystem across each of our customer groups.
To help bring it to life for you all, we will run through our Marketing Plans and Activations at our Stage Event on 22nd October. Weâll make this more of a Townhall style Event and can make a recording for anyone unable to attend.
We are really keen to keep you informed as we run towards launch and your engagement, participation and insights are gratefully received.
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What makes Autonomy unique for consumers?
iâm confident (from what ive heard at Stage Event) that the partnership approach is correct and the first consumers will be users of the partners if i understand correctly.
I very much want to be a user/consumer of an on/off button as to who gets my medical records, which was briefly chatted about on last nights Stage Event (looking forward to the next). The future of farming (real tractors) was also discussed, all very interesting,
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@bochaco Created this app to run nodes on Umbrel OS which has a much nicer look than launch pad.
Since we are talking about marketing, take a look at this 2 min. Intro from Umbrel OS. This is the kind of marketing we need. Whoever made this video is a genius. It may be worth reaching out to them to find out who made this. Note the subscriber count vs the number of views now at 250k.
Note the comments on the video and how they have people that donât run the OS commenting.
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Welcome! I hope you have an amazing time working on marketing Autonomi.
On one hand itâs exciting to hear efforts are going into marketing, but also a bit worrying while the network still feels âintangibleâ to most users.
I really hope there is no marketing push ahead of having a good user experience with the network⌠if thereâs not at least a few cool apps to play with on the network, the efforts could be wasted / poor value for money.
When the network is fun & exciting to play with (e.g. some video sharing, messaging / forum apps, music apps, easy file storage, website publishing & browsing, like we had on old-school test nets), new eyes on the project will stick around, play & see potential, rather than getting bored & leaving⌠please donât do a âcart before the horseâ marketing push!
Iâm sure thatâs not what you have in mind, so itâll be great to see what is planned on 22nd 
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To your point we should have something like the Umbrel app store which regular folk can access and use.
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Agreed!
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@riddim - now youâre in trouble, I was taught how to post gifs in the forum - uh oh ⌠thatâs the neighbourhood gone 
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aaah - itâs perfect - I think a bit of fresh air in here is perfect
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and for the record 
except for some explanatory videos and some advisory in a tv show I donât recall much that can be considered real marketing attempts I think done by the company maidsafe
canât wait to see whatâs coming and where weâre heading now with a head of marketing besides a CEO and the original founder 
together with rusty and ato in discord there seems to be a slight shift in resource allocation
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