ANT/Ethereum?

Autonomi Network Token (incl (e)MAID)
1

Will ANT remain stored on Ethereum/Arbitrum One, or will it eventually transition to Autonomi?

2 Likes
2

They are working on a native token which will exist in network which will hopefully fulfill their initial promise for fast and free payments. As far as I am aware, the plan is for both the native and the ARB token to exist long term, but Iā€™m not 100% on that.

5 Likes
3

I believe ANT will continue to be on ARB even when there is a native token. It is very difficult to get a native token listed on a CEX for onramp/offramps

5 Likes
4

Would much rather have native token than CEX, but thats just me.

The crypto world is a sad, greed-filled, wasteful, divisive, cumbersome, privacy-disrespecting place, and it sucks that Autonomi decided to double down on it.

Hope to see the native token soon.

8 Likes
5

None of this is actually wrong,but it is the swamp in which we have to exist.

So get your waders and snorkel on, give us a smile and get on with it :slight_smile:

5 Likes
6

Existence and use for the network are two separate things. It would seem most likely like @rusty.spork says, it will exist and most likely used as one option for on/off ramping to be able to get native token on the network.

But Bux has said that resources will only ever be paid for by one token, be it the ERC20 ANT prior to native then native (exchanged 1:1) once native exists.

2 Likes
7

I wonder if it will ever be possible to swap the arb-ants for native ants back and forth in some kind of uniswappy way.

1 Like
8

This is what I pointed out back in September and was rejected with buckets of wishful thinking. I also challenged the idea that once a blockchain token was in place it could be replaced by the native token.

Nobody has explained how that could happen in enough detail for it to stand up to basic scrutiny.

We are still being told that the native token is a priority and will happen, but no detail on what that will mean and how to get there.

Which leaves lots of room for people to imagine that what they want is what will happen.

So for now I continue to believe that we are stuck with blockchain, with all its centralisation and privacy problems - even if a native token is implemented.

5 Likes
9

Even if it takes another 18 months to develop the native token and Autonomi demonstrates strong network growth in that time? How did projects like Solana and Algorand manage to get listed on CEX?

7 Likes
10

I hope thatā€™s the way it goes; native available for huge volumes of fast and free/cheap transactions, and arb ANT available for on/off ramps (inc DEXs), safety (if there were any concerns about network stability in anyoneā€™s mind), hardware wallet compatibility etc.

But, weā€™ll have to wait and see what is feasible with native once itā€™s ready for testing, and what the team decide to do.

3 Likes
11

To get a native token listed we would need to see at least 10M+ in daily volume from what I have seen from other projects that actually get listed. I hope we get there and I will do my best to help us get there, but I do not imagine we will see that in the next 18 months. Even if we have the native token tomorrow, we donā€™t have to have a direct onramp/offramp, we can go through ARB for now. But the vision would be to one day have direct onramp/offramps. If we get to the point where every few computers in the world are running Autonomi, I have no doubt we will have a direct path. But until we get there, we must take it a baby step at a time.

9 Likes
12

I just donā€™t see the appeal of going through so many hoops just to upload one file.

What is the recommended way to participate in Autonomi with absolutely zero KYC?

How do you obtain eth for gas?

1 Like
13

The way to get there will be through use, through utility, but thereā€™s little utility for a native token now because you canā€™t force nodes to accept it.

I cannot see a credible route for the native token to be listed, be used to pay for storage or gain value. Until we have a credible route thatā€™s wishful thinking as far as I can see.

So we are wedded to blockchain centralised services, very difficult adoption for most, and big holes in our claims of privacy. The fundamentals have been shot to pieces.

1 Like
14

What do you see as a block? Why would there not be a route to add native tokens for node payments & user wallets once itā€™s developed?

I expect nobody can show a specific path forward before itā€™s even been developed, but why do you expect it will be an insurmountable challenge?

15

One issue is that itā€™s up to node runners what they accept as payment, and to work they all have to agree.

So you have to get them all to accept both, or all change over at once.

Why would they accept a worthless unproven new token when they have everything working nicely as it is?

We can come up with all kinds of good reasons but convincing everyone else is not credible imo.

Unless someone has a brilliant plan, but Iā€™ve been asking to hear one since September.

Autonomi have installed an incumbent that will be incredibly difficult to shift, and the word from them is that they donā€™t intend to. They will just add other tokens alongside, but thereā€™s nothing about how that could support payment for storage without involving blockchain.

1 Like
16

Accepting both sounds less disruptive than trying to agree to a sudden changeover

Things might be working fairly nicely, but I expect by that point people will be well aware of the fee cost and delays the ERC20 system is bringing to the network that Native should solve.

Many people in the community clearly want native token, and are excited about what it is expected to offer. Many of these people are likely to be running nodes, and will support its adoption.

I expect operators will be pushing to see native as soon as is practical, rather than standing in the way of an upgrade that will help the network scale, and make uploads cheaper, faster & more seamless.

The improvements the native token bring to the network should be good for the token price. Assuming node operators will tend to also hold some ANT, itā€™ll be in their own self interest to accept the upgrade.

I donā€™t get your assumption that the token would be ā€˜worthlessā€™ if itā€™s 1:1 ERC20 ANT to nativeā€¦ if ERC20 ANT is not worthless, why would native be worthless if it carries out the same function and is exchangeable / tradeable with the ERC20 version?

2 Likes
17

I understand but disagree with the idea getting operators on-board will happen for the reasons you state. To me it is not credible, so we shall differ.

Again, this is obviously wrong to me. I donā€™t know how to explain that the token will be worthless because you canā€™t expect people to swap 1:1 just because you say it is the same. It will be a big change for both those running nodes to earn, and anyone who has been uploading, so you have to get everyone to agree it is both a good idea and that it is right to swap 1:1.

You said yourself it will be easier to have both at the same time, yet getting everyone to accept both is going to be so difficult I donā€™t see any of this as credible.

Another point is that all of this will get more difficult the longer we have to wait for native. Right now, it might be feasible, but as more people come to run nodes and to store data, and to build their services based on the current token, the harder it will be to make changes. IMO this means it will never happen and weā€™ll all just get used to it.

I know Iā€™m the only person voicing this issue, but I know Iā€™m not the only person who understands it and agrees with me on this.

Iā€™m not going to keep on debating this. I will engage with any specific plans people put forward but nobody has anything but the belief that the issues I raise wonā€™t be a problem.

Code is more important now, because I think it is too late to rescue the project fundamentals and am already reconciled to something far from that. I very much hope Iā€™m wrong, but everything I said from early last year has been correct with one exception (which I forget now).

Iā€™m more concerned that weā€™ve not had uploads working for about six months, bar a few people who have been able to do so under favourable conditions such as using a VPS, or having a good connection and high spec router.

We can still build something good and useful with this network, so thatā€™s my focus unless something comes along that can get us closer to where we were heading until last September.

1 Like
18

If both ANT and native are accepted by nodes what do the nodes pay out? How would the nodes keep ANT/native 1:1 without some connection of native to blockchain?

19

Is it really the case that everyone needs to accept both? What if ā€œonlyā€ 99% does?

Iā€™m asking, because Iā€™m trying to understand.

1 Like
20

What / are there any specific tactics that these projects leveraged to get to that level of trading volume that Automomi could deploy over the next 18 months?

2 Likes