Won’t go into how “disk” space is on an exponential curve rather than some doubling curve.
Moore’s law was based on transistors on a die (2D), it is dead now since 3D die manufacturing is taking over. Heat laws and molecular “laws” and fab techniques are doing away with it. People may manipulate figures to fit Moore’s law
Storage space was based on 10x very 5 years, till the last 4 years when research turned from rotating media to SSD media about 6 years ago. We saw one year with 10x increase in a commercial product. the 100TB drive was only good in specialised applications due to its cost. Now we have 60TB that individuals could potentially afford, if they really needed one.
SSD’s use 3D fab techniques so doubling every period (it is transistors) is out and 10x every 5 years (storage law) is almost out the window.
So the storage issue is in exponential increase now with more manufacturing facilities online.
Data generation is beyond exponential increase and socalled AI is going to fuel that exponential increase even more.
And as I explained to you before and you ignored, forever storage is like 1.111111 (use 1.2) times the original cost of storing the data initially using NEW h/w. Its proven and not a theory, ask anyone storing their data from last century and ask how much it costs to keep it. LOL spare resources only and costing zero.
And covering overheads of nodes is simply another factor since the cost to keep that chunk (in overheads) also follows a similar reducing function. So all that needs to be done is to charge a suitable amount to cover that. But then using spare resources then its almost zero anyhow.
You seem to forget this is designed and scoped to be run on spare resources in people’s homes etc. And charging on every transaction is a old school solution to a problem old school economics never considers (using spare resources).
Anything that destroys the massive increase in data production also is destroying the very machines it can be stored on. EG home computer and datacentres and labs.
And yes I am limiting this to my and my grandkids life times
1TB total storage on nodes is today about 100W, about 2,4kW/h per day, then you have internet bandwidth of 130mbit up/down, so we talk about $25 or so per month to deliver 1TB.
Not sure if most people will run nodes because they don’t want to keep the PC on when they don’t use it, don’t want fans running and so on.
Pay once, store forever, is a hope it works solution and won’t pay for electricity or bandwidth long term. Maybe it will work maybe it won’t.
I hope that we are able to get this to run on phones – or whatever future always-on device people end up using. Also hoping that “unlimited” bandwidth becomes the norm for such devices.
I expect this will happen too because phones are becoming more and more powerful and likely will replace most other devices in the future - especially if we sort out the privacy issues with them. If it does happen, then that should also sort out the concerns you’ve laid out @tobbetj
My computer does not use an extra 2.4KWHr per day. LOL you prove you are looking for problems rather than learning how it works. Also 1TB drive uses 3-7 watts depending on usage so only 0.17KWHr per day if I had to add the drive to my computer.
But if you do nothing else, learn
spare resources means I am already using the computer and drive. So incremental cost is not measurable over 1 day and maybe 1 to 2 dollars a quarter if you have a decade or 2 old drive. And cents for anything less than 5-7 years old.
Oh BTW that 1TB would be earning tokens per year and the network keeping the old data. I spend pages telling you the maths, physics and economics of how that works.
But hey keep ignorant on how it works and waste people’s time worrying about falsehoods.
EDIT: I am also for this testing running a computer 24/7 that has 2TB available and it draws like 10 watts. 0.2 KWHr per day. So even your exampling where people are supposed to buy a computer to run nodes is a falsehood anyhow. They would buy this 200 dollar computer to run twice your drive space and earn many tokens and costing 5 cents a day in electricity. 15$ a year. So at todays tiny price for MAID they only have to earn 30 tokens a year to cover costs and extra tokens pay for the computer cost.
So in fact you can make money from buying new and storing everything given to the nodes. Remember a node will only get full if the whole network is full. And so it will continue to earn tokens until there is too much data being generated by the world. And in 2-4 years it’ll be 20TB for less than 200$ to buy new computer w/20TB and tokens prob worth much more than they are now
You are just talking random things and you highlight my points. Pay once, store forever is made of wishful thinking of if’s and but’s. That people will run nodes for charity and not dedicated hardware.
It is not a sustainable solution, not made for people who want run dedicated nodes and get some form of return.
Yes I understand, it says as only people with spare hardware will run a few nodes each, for charity, that will not effect their system because it is only spare resources.
Saying what I say, pay once, store forever will not be economcaly sustainable for those who want to run dedicated systems long term. The amount of old data that has already been payed for once will become larger and larger across the network over time, less and less of bandwidth, cpu, storage will be for new data. If’s and but’s Moores law solves that, it’s a gamble.
Forever storage, pay once for something that runs on electricity and bandwidth, that is fundamentaly flawed. Someone will have to pay, the question is what and who.
You claim to know economics but cannot grasp this. Odd indeed
HINT: look at the pages of maths I have given you.
But better yet think of it as %age of current storage to store old data.
This year new data take 1TB
5 Years time I buy 10TB drive to replace old drive due to die for less than the 1TB 5 years ago. A lot cheaper if inflation is accounted for.
so the old data from 5 years ago takes 1/10 the drive. IE 1/10 of teh original cost to keep it. So the cost is 1.1 times the original cost
In another 5 years its 100th the space required, so 1.11 the original cost now
So if I charge 1.2 times the cost today to store the 1TB then I can afford to store it forever.
Oh the electricity to store that old data is no more than storing the new data I am being paid for. The new drive uses the same electricity. Looking at incremental cost it is zero since makes no difference if the old data is there or not. This is what I mean you do not understand the real costs of data storage.
Get it, charge more now to account for future costs.
I am not going to answer anymore since you refuse to understand or is it deliberate?
The nodes consume relative large amount of cpu, memory, bandwidth for relative small amount of data stored.
They consume that power, bandwidth all the time 24/7, no matter if that data is being asked for or not, that is one of the drawbacks of decentralized trustless networks.
Everything comes at a price, someone will always have to pay. A forever machine is science fiction.
Go to the site and notice that SSD storage (preferred today) has dropped by nigh on 3 times in last 2 years
2021 72 dollars per TB
2023 26 dollars per TB
So if you take real data Also looking at graph it will be noted that as R&D increases in the field of SSD the graph has taken a down turn while rotating media is slowing down. And shows how my real world example of going outside of design specs for Autonomi’s hardware specs (spare resources) to use new gear is a working example of how the economics will work
Understanding of technology means you understand how Autonomi will work.
And then Autonomi is designed for using ones spare resources so arguing outside of this again Autonomi working is arguing something else.
Still waiting for the accumulation simulation of already payed for storage on the network over time, maybe it will come after your storage numbers and math starts to make sense.
My life has been much more serene since I decided that some forum members were a waste of time and best totally ignored.
Willful ignorance is a particularly despicable and cowardly tactic.
I would encourage everyone to check out this post .
Consider annuities. They pay a monthly income based on a life expectency. You could live longer or shorter than average, but the price of the annuity is calculated based on expectations.
Pay once, store forever is a similar calculation. A store cost (annuity) is sold, on the basis that regular overheads (monthly income) are predictable and reduce over time.
These sort of calculations have happened in the insurance industry for decades. Probably centuries. It isn’t new maths.
Also looking at graph it will be noted that as R&D increases in the field of SSD the graph has taken a down turn while rotating media is slowing down. And shows how my real world example of going outside of design specs for Autonomi’s hardware specs (spare resources) to use new gear is a working example of how the economics will work
