Launch Planning: Community Update 🚀

[scottefc86]

My guess is they are figuring out how to combine the totals for the new reward incentive and the beta rewards program so the overall total is still the same

[riddim]

oupsie xD wrong chat

[Dimitar]

@JimCollinson , breaking news - Sweat will support transaction payments with its token in these 3 L2 Ethereum blockchains as well #Arbitrum
#Optimism
#Base

which means that there will be no need for a bridge, it will be possible to directly exchange sweat for the gas token of the corresponding layer 2 and use it for the autonomi tokens:

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Privacy. Security. Freedom

[bridge]

I cant agree more about your strategy to enlarge truly decentralized network. You know how much the rulers don’t want to decentralize data and AI. But the public won’t understand the choices you make.

But I support, respect and encourage you. You are the most patient, faithful, consistent, and unchanging person I have ever met. May God bless you and complete this task.

[DavidMc0]

@jane

How can a a platform that advertises itself as an anonymous, decentralized, uncensorable network that requires a centralised entity that requires every node operator to present a passport photo to the centralised authority in order for the network to function long term

It doesn’t require that, but it will be easier for node operators who want to sell network token if they use centralised exchanges… though some of these don’t require KYC for small amounts, which is all the average node operator will need.

The network can still itself be decentralised and uncensorable even if governments make it hard for people who want to deal in large trades of the network tokens outside of centralised exchanges.

@TylerAbeoJordan

Bisq does

I’m pretty sure it doesn’t - I think it’s a marketplace, and users have the bank accounts, not the network.

@TylerAbeoJordan

False. You can trade Bitcoin for fiat through Bisq right now

Again, I’m pretty sure Bisq operates by joining third party traders together, not by actually having bank accounts / on/off ramos itself that it allows anyone to use and evade KYC.

Happy to learn more if this isn’t the case… I just remember trying it years ago, and didn’t bother again when it failed (hopefully it’s slicker these days).

@TylerAbeoJordan

Bisq does. As I’ve pointed out over and over again. Integration would give us everything we need. But aside from all the likes I’ve gotten on my posts above on this, the team ignores and waves hands.

I think that’s unfair to the team. They have clearly noted what you’ve said about Bisq, and responded, and I’m sure in time they’ll investigate whether it’s a viable option, but I wouldn’t expect them to do that as a top priority.

[DavidMc0]

@jane

despite the fact most users will be required to use a heavily regulated, KYC centralised exchange to access the resources of the network for the forseable future.

They won’t be required to though.

They can simply supply resources, and use resources with their earnings.

If they want to buy tokens more quickly than they can earn and hate KYC, do a deal with someone who has tokens, or use BISQ to buy BTC, then exchange for ETH, and then get Autonomi Network tokens.

Anyone who wants to stay no KYC will be able to, though of course it might be more hassle… but I don’t think Autonomi should be expected to somehow fix that issue!

[Sonder]

I’ve read a lot of comments and can understand the frustration and the reason to compromise to get something launched. After lots of reading and thinking i’m happy we are going to get something to play with and show to the world. It may not be the end product or dream but it is an amazing starting point. This project was never going to be an easy one to deliver. I will wait and hope that what we get is good enough to at least get devs on board and i will be able to try out some apps and websites like my first days of using the internet.

Well done to the team for getting us here and making the hard choices. Please keep driving towards the original vision. We can get there if we don’t give up!

Cheers

P.S. sorry to hear you’ve been unwell @dirvine i hope all is well now.

[loziniak]

@DavidMc0

They won’t be required to though.

They can simply supply resources, and use resources with their earnings.

I think it was already confirmed by the team, that using a ERC20 token for uploads will require gas, which will not be available until you buy it yourself.

And perhaps there is a way around it… What if Maidsafe had a pool of native L2 currency (like ETH in mainnet, let’s call it gas), and the network would pay node operators with ERC20 with some amount already exchanged for gas? This pool could be managed by a smart contract and collect gas from royalties or be topped-up by the team.

I was once working on a solution to the problem

robotix-pl/autorefill/blob/master/contracts/AutoRefill.sol

There also seem to be standard ways for gasless transactions, like paymasters:

What are Paymasters? (ERC-4337)

[DavidMc0]

@loziniak

I think it was already confirmed by the team, that using a ERC20 token for uploads will require gas, which will not be available until you buy it yourself.

I expect there will be ways around it, but if not, the amount needed for gas will be tiny (ask a friend, buy with a credit card, etc), so the scale of the problem will be very small for anyone with a tiny bit of motivation.

Also, it’s only temporary until the Native token is developed… some people seem far too stressed out about a tiny bit of friction that may or may not exist in practice.

I like that you are looking for solutions as well as seeing problems - I wish others did a bit of both rather than some of the unbalanced negativity slinging going on at the moment

[JimCollinson]

Yup, you are on it!

Gas fee can be subbed, or even eliminated with paymasters. And we could even offer subs for chunk payments — say for first time-onboarding — if we want too.

There are quite a lot of features we can use to our advantage.

[TylerAbeoJordan]

@DavidMc0

Again, I’m pretty sure Bisq operates by joining third party traders together,

Yes, and that negates your original statement which is why I said it was false.

@DavidMc0

I think that’s unfair to the team.

I disagree. The OG dream was strong decentralization and they’ve flipped a switch after 18 years and now it’s not … and that is unfair to those of us who’ve hodled and supported all of these years for the OG dream. They are being unfair and I think such requires hard answers which have not been given.

If there were problems with the plan, then we should have been made aware of them months ago at least … not two months before “launch”.

I believe there are other reasons for this change. And, in any case, we aren’t being told everything. So the team is being unfair here, not we powerless hodlers who are paying the price.

@DavidMc0

and use resources with their earnings.

That’s nonsense. There is no way average users will earn enough to store much of anything on the network. It was always going to be difficult to do so, and now it’s much worse. Think it through, you will see I’m correct.

@DavidMc0

do a deal with someone who has tokens, or use BISQ to buy BTC, then exchange for ETH, and then get Autonomi Network tokens.

Yeah, that’s going to be a really popular route for grandma who wants to store some files. This is why we need a in-built exchange mechanism.

[DavidMc0]

@TylerAbeoJordan

There is no way average users will earn enough to store much of anything on the network.

We will see, but I think that will be wrong. Of course the amount of data someone is able to put on the network will be a fraction of whatever storage they offer, but that’s ok for some use cases, e.g. messaging / forum usage / transactions. For bulk storage, people will need to buy tokens unless they’re running a lot of nodes.

@TylerAbeoJordan

That’s nonsense

Your manners aren’t great at the moment. I know you’re angry about recent events &
are looking at everything negatively, but try to be less abrasive & respect people even if they see things differently to you.

What I said clearly makes sense, with caveats.

@TylerAbeoJordan

Yeah, that’s going to be a really popular route for grandma who wants to store some files. This is why we need a in-built exchange mechanism.

You suggested Bisq, and I just laid out the practicality of it, unless Bisq add direct Autonomi transactions to their code, but if they don’t even support ETH directly yet (you neet to buy BTC first), I wouldn’t be too hopeful.

Grandma can use one of the easy to use CEXs. Also, grandma may not be an early adopter, but hopefully things will get easier to use with more options over time… just not all on day 1.

@TylerAbeoJordan

This is why we need a in-built exchange mechanism.

I’m all for that if it’s possible. Why not work on getting the best potential options for this together & figuring out details of possible solutions rather than being all negative & hopeless about it.

[Bogard]

@dirvine

That’s a long road and investors etc. have zero payout in that period.

And by this you mean Maidsafe / the foundation’s owners and staff given the totality of facts here. Maidsafe is concerned about where to sell off the coins it’ll hold (the vast majority of the supply). The ERC20 will expedite that.

I really think it’s disingenuous to accuse those who are concerned about the ERC20 path of being greedy. In fact, it’s those people who care less about money and who want the network to work out on sound principles, principles that allowed bitcoin and ethereum to become so popular that maidsafe wants to rely on them. Please also borrow from their decentralization ethos, including not holding so much of the supply and setting up “royalties”.

Again, if you truly only care about this network working and being fully decentralized enough that you’re okay with going with ERC20 (at least for now), then you should be flexible enough to align with bitcoin/ethereum ethos and let go of bad ideas like owning the vast majority of supply and getting perpetual royalties. Not doing so but switching to ERC20 for liquidity is a really bad look.

[Lisa_Brown]

@TylerAbeoJordan

I disagree. The OG dream was strong decentralization and they’ve flipped a switch after 18 years and now it’s not … and that is unfair to those of us who’ve hodled and supported all of these years for the OG dream. They are being unfair and I think such requires hard answers which have not been given.

I thought you were an intelligent person until this tripe. Can you not see what they have repeatedly said to the community! Its too risky to go with a native token, and too risky to launch with no on/off ramp. You seem to be set on the idea that your idea is the best, and just go with ‘bisq’. Because your an OG? LOL. SO am I!! Grow up man!

[Southside]

Quite right !!!

OG can stand for Old Girls as well as Old Guys.

Idealism is all well and good but it needs to to occasionally be tempered with pragmatism.

[riddim]

I thought “Original German”

[Southside]

ED surely? Echtes Deutscher? Nein? Its funfzig Jahre since I learned German though…

[aatonnomicc]

Would the real OG please stand up

[Erik_Hedin]

@dirvine

If we cannot get value from a native token quickly enough to make financial sense to supporters on day 1 or even day 1000 (likely) then we start with a coin that can.

What will give the new ERC20 financial sense? Is this a way for investor to exit or also a way for maidsafe to raise money?

[rreive]

jsut fyi @dirvine @jimcollinson @bux On the ‘Flippening’ Side of ETH and also SOL Blockchain world (vs Spiderchain on BTC) one project which is getting some traction for AI Agents is Phala Network, they have been around awhile and are tied into OpenAI et al

imo could be a good baseline for AI research for Autonomi Network in designing our own variant

Phala Network - Verifiable Computation for Web3