Anyone interested in joining an Autonomi Developer Co-op or startup?

this link below is ok as a starting point to get up to speed on TOGAF architecture quick

The biggest of the big use it in terms of their network size and number of events flowing through it…

Autonomi Network and Community , if it wants to be the biggest of the big and really spread a prosperity network worldwide, imo needs to start thinking and collaborating around a TOGAF Architectural Vision and build the same sort of support mechanisms to maintain the architecture, in order to effectively and efficiently counter the status quo @ scale.

It’s all doable, frankly there are more big creative agile brains in this community than those found in the biggest of banks, so really it is possible to out do them AT THEIR OWN GAME, architecturally speaking with better ideas and be more agile about it (bank progress is glacial, however Q-Day coming has them all in panic mode ala Y2K back in the day) and by doing so,

we will also proactively be positioned to keep the regulators in check when they do come to scrutinize and stop Autonomi, because that is what they will do, especially when they see their members losing transaction volume business to such an upstart.. :wink:

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This is great stuff. Thanks for digging through all of this and posting it here. I have a lot to read…

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Guys, we really need to be looking at veilid. It seems like the perfect complimentary P2P network. Anyone with some time, check out this video from Security Fest 2025. This network is also just starting out after years of development, just a handful of apps. What they don’t have is permanent storage, just ephemeral stuff that gets wiped out after a couple weeks, depending on popularity. This looks like a killer opportunity here Please watch this if you have time:

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPvkGb9CT3Q
  • 07:40 - very high level intro video. Kind of goofy, but you’ll get the high level concept
  • 22:00 - talks about how data is stored, but falls off after no one cares about it anymore
  • 23:50 - privacy policy, should we look at this?
  • 24:30 - we don’t need a billionaire’s cloud
  • 30:00 - talks about storage on veilid, content addressable data, and chunking!
  • 35:40 - DHT, localizing data, performance improvements, popular data becomes available due to caching, can Autonomi use any of these concepts?
  • 38:55 - onion routing, private routing, compiled routes (really interesting concept)
  • 42:00 - accessible privacy, apps should just work without complication otherwise these concepts won’t take off
  • 43:00 - veilid chat app, has an identity concept, leverage on Autonomi apps??
  • 45:00 - for @southside : “Time to overthrow internet data capitalism” :slight_smile:

Shoutout to @jane , thank you so much for pointing this out, I had no idea this existed.

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thoughts after watching video …
Looks like great people and project, the mobile optimization is a significant thing i feel due to the fact that many Global South users access the internet primarily through smartphones.

Could be several compelling integration opportunities but i am not qualified to evaluate those. Feels like we’re (collectively between various projects) on the cusp of having all the ingredients to boot the door in and make the dream a reality ie a data sovereignty tech sector with amazing security and a user experience to match the expectations of the mass market.

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If you were on Mastodon you’d have known about this when it started.

They announced it at DEFCON I believe, I forget which year.

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So you know it already? What’s your opinion?

There’s been a discussion here lately:

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I have not tried it yet. I plan to dig into their APIs this weekend and see what we can do with it. It looks very promising. I’m going to post on their discord as well and see if we can get some cross pollination going.

Edit: looks like our valiant @Southside is on their discord after searching for Autonomi over there. Do you have any insights into this project or general thoughts?

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I’ve not tried it or looked into it in any depth. I’ve followed their announcements but lack of permanent storage is the main differentiator with Autonomi and most similar projects.

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Here’s what I heard back from DilDog (one of the head developers and the speaker from the video) on their discord:

  1. DilDog 🅅 9:39 AM

    that sounds like an interesting alternative to filecoin, but as of right now we are not accepting any blockchain-powered projects into veilid’s ecosystem itself. If people want to use both projects, or use one to augment the other, they can do that though, we won’t try to stop you. ::face_with_tongue::

  2. [9:43 AM]

    if they’d like to chat with me or @:b_button_blood_type:grift 🅅 (API surface) or anyone else here doing the daily stuff on Veilid, i’d be happy to talk but as far as integrations go, we’re going to do as much as humanly possible without invoking ‘commerce’ or ‘coins’. Doesn’t mean that there isn’t a place for that, but it can’t be -inside- of veilid. There may be ways to have it co-exist alongside veilid with some kind of connector though.

Foiled by crypto again… I sent this to MaidSafe though, hopefully they will consider collaborating at a technical level, they’re doing so much of the same stuff: XOR address closeness for nodes, content addressable data, data chunking, NAT traversal/hole punching stuff.

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Posted their intro video on Autonomi as well (with some help from @safemedia ): https://anttp.antsnest.site/3d20ade7b8063e2b33451f6c329dc86504e45cb005e2f835de7b521ee3192164/veilid.mp4

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Interesting. Great that the dev you reached out to was so open and responsive.

Given what’s working already / promised with Riddim’s ‘friends’ app via Autonomi, what kind of additional benefits might building with Veilid + Autonomi bring?

Of course if Autonomi can add something to an existing community of users by delivering value to them (e.g. adding the benefits of Autonomi’s decentralised data storage to Veilid based apps via a connector), then it’d be great to help get the word out about Autonomi.

Similarly with Bittorrent clients that add Autonomi’s benefits.

Building apps that add value to & get the attention of existing aligned communities would be a great marketing approach for the community / cooperative / Autonomi.

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@southside posted this before

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Credit should go to @Herodotos who I think was the first to spot these guys.

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in theory a noderunner could host Veild nodes in a private lightweight LXC container (or ok for MAC and MS types Docker) operating on a noderunner system pointed at a local system storage volume on the system via a local private IP route, with such a private container only having a public XOR address visible to other Autonomi Network XOR addressed containers running the same Veilid app/container combo, the associated UDP runs over a separate private local IP Address separate from the underlying HOS IP address. (= container use of a Private IP address behind port forwarding, which is different from the HOS system IP address attaching to the ISP modem/router, as such traffic will enter the WAN as UDP over the external modem’s IP address after port forwarding)

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I kind of see this as one of the missing pieces to a fully functional distributed application. Where Autonomi is the storage layer, Veilid functions as a kind of live gossip, and potentially compute, layer. So for example, in Colony, users can store their metadata and share it with their friends, but there is no other way to discover content unless you talk to other people. With Veilid, it seems that I could bake a Veilid node into each Colony client, and as pods are updated or uploaded to the network, I could fire off a message that says ‘hey there is new stuff that somebody uploaded, check it out’ and notify other running Colony applications. Or even auto update specific pods as they are updated to get the new content. Or (eventually) users could submit updates to a central index and we could somehow use other Veilid/Colony nodes to verify and upload the data to the central index. That would be the optimal case: a single immutable, append only index referencing all of the immutable data on the network. That’s where I want to get to :smiley: . But I can’t do that with Autonomi by itself, I need a layer to share live messages and perform some compute to verify submissions are valid and do the actual upload. That’s just the Colony use case. There are so many possibilities that this thing opens up. As long as it works the way I think it does, maybe I’m completely wrong, I’m still trying to understand how it works and its capabilities.

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Here is a video to start to get our heads wrapped around how to actually build a community token which accurately reflects the investment in resources deployed to run what should be a three level currency model on a foundation of monetized resources, without fractional reserve BS stoking the value of the currency used which erodes everyone’s buying power.

Initially yes, we will use fiat to keep acquiring resources, resources which effectively get monetized, turned into a money (NAT) based on the utility of the resource given it’s employment in the network, not a currency , so we can build non-inflationary currencies on top that money to enable new forms of ‘grass roots’ prosperity and continue to grow and to run this alternate world of prosperity operating on the Autonomi Network,

until such time the noderunnner permanent storage and other future services hosted on the network paid for in $Autonomi is earned $Autonomi currency generated by the network, to be sufficient

based on us sharing these resources to store data and receive one time payments

that we see the $Autonomi currency earned be sufficient to be spent and be re-cycled into buying more resources to grow the Autonomi network,

thus creating a new purchasing source of currency which effectively over time will cut off the old Fiat system of scarcity currently(and forever in the pas) driving such multiple fiat currency supplies to progressively be larger amounts, which is what drives inflation and erodes the heck out of our buying power.

The real engineering of money challenge for Autonomi is to represent the monetization of the cpu,ram, network and storage resources employed to run the network into a monetized store of value, and that is the opportunity to create a new form of money, to currency,

where that monetized value represents a resource backed value and money, and is not a currency,

where the valuation method of that money used to determine the value of the resource converted into money, lets call it NAT ‘Native Autonomi Token” creation of that money

is related to it’s utility as a system, ie how many max chunks can be stored and antnodes run on that system without over-subscription (a type of fractionalized currency earnings creation which sucks.)

There is a key link from creating this new form of money the value of which is based on the efficient utility of the resource employed relative to the job it performs, that is run the network

and that money, to avoid the fractionalization trap that erodes people’s buying power is only

convertible 1:1 into an internal digital cash certificate a la @dirvine which can be purchased using $Autonomi Tokens to be held as digital savings, but also be converted back to Staked $Autonomi, which can see that Staked $Autonomi be lent out as credit, to be paid back in full of some agreed term in $Autonomi with interest (private lending) or without interest (public local/regional works) per what ever the issue of the credit backed by real value (no fractionalized bullshit) decides.

I am going to post a diagram over the weekend to get feedback here initially on how this all likely works, so we can all attempt to poke holes at it and do some flaw discovery…

The current vs. Desired? Four Level Table in this thread, is a place we can trap this online to further develop the concept, anyone in this thread with the link and a google account can make comments. I will stick the Diagram in that table for now, and we can use the comments there to get things going, then clean it up and publish it more broadly to get more feedback.

I have been studying this for nearly a decade, so I think the Desired? model is close as a workable four level model, where the creation of Layer 1 money in the Desired? system is based on the utility of the resources employed, where to determine the value of a systems to the network in monetary terms we would be using a common algorithm to figure that valuation of the resources to convert it into a digital NAT needs to be figured out. (The earlier PoR effort is definitely useful here).

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So in the system you describe, deployed computing resources (CPU, RAM, storage, bandwidth) function like gold in a gold standard - they’re the real, tangible backing for the money supply?

Gold Standard Parallel

Traditional Gold Standard:

  • Gold sits in vaults as physical backing for currency

  • Currency value tied to actual gold reserves

  • Can’t print money without acquiring more gold

Network Resource Standard:

  • Computing resources actively working in the network as backing for NAT

  • NAT value tied to actual utility being provided

  • Can’t create new NAT without deploying actual computing resources

is that the gist of it? :slightly_smiling_face:

here is the Story in Readable Chapter form formatted by Grok after a couple of engineered prompt cycles and input of the above on my part … :slight_smile:

https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg%3D%3D_5303e531-f29d-49e3-9f59-7007ceb3ee29

@zettawatt the link above is a Grok re-edited version of all the stuff I have slapped up in this thread, restated in Layman English story book form with examples that even I can understand! enjoy. Anyone can view the link.

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Guys, I have an impression, that we are going off-topic here, multiple times. Mixing Money/Currency/Tokens, Veilid, FaaS, co-op governance… What do you think about moving discussion to dedicated topics, or just change this topic’s subject to be more general? It’d be nice to not make a copy of Discord here in Forum :stuck_out_tongue:

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