A rant: Apple sucks and how to make money with Autonomi?

Development
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Just a rant and some info for anyone else who attempts to get an app into the Apple app store.

Apparently you can’t install a program on a mac that has a side car binary unless it is properly signed by an official Apple certificate because safety. This is a problem for Colony because I include dweb as a side car binary to handle web apps. So after a lot of back and forth I finally decided to pay Apple their $99 bribe to get some certificates, because nothing says ‘great software’ like paying a giant corporation money for the privilege of running on the hardware that their customers don’t really own.

But nothing ever ‘just works’. It took me days to figure out how to generate a whole pile of different certificates and plug these into a github release flow just so I could sign the binaries.

So I fgured, cool, now I should be able to put Colony in the app store right? I spent $99 and dealt with all the code signing nonsense, surely it won’t be that much more work to get this on the app store. 2 days later after tons of iterations in the CI flow, dealing with legalese about releasing my app in Afganistan, not having the proper encryption paperwork to enable releases in France, and doing a write up about how to run the app to whatever 3rd rate app tester they chose to look it over, I finally got everything signed, notarized, and bundled for blessing by the fruits in Cupertino.

The next day: rejected. Why you may ask? Well section 3.1.5 of their guidelines, of course!:
3.1.5 Cryptocurrencies:

  • (i) Wallets: Apps may facilitate virtual currency storage, provided they are offered by developers enrolled as an organization.

So to put Colony on their ‘store’, for FREE mind you, I need to incorporate into a company or non-profit, go through all that paperwork, pay the government leaches for the privilege of running a ‘business’, pay the necessary taxes every quarter, and ONLY THEN, would Apple consider approving the code. All this and in all likelihood they would take it down immediately if there was ever a squeak from some dimwitted bureaucrat in Brussels or London.

And this was just Apple. Microsoft charges a lot more to sign binaries (done through 3rd parties as I understand it). Maybe Google is better.

Sorry guys, I tried, I really did. I just don’t have the time, resources or patience to deal with this on a project that has no prospect of producing income and almost no user engagement. I’m starting to doubt the future of the network, not for tokenomics, not for cost or speed, but for lack of developer incentive. For all the faults of the server-client model, the server gave developers a way to get paid for their work. We have no way to do that here. Yes I can launch an app for ‘free’ that lives fully on the network, but I have no way to monetize it. No one will pay for programs built for Autonomi. Open source software == free. Because I have to GPL3 my code (due to the autonomi libs being GPL3), any semi tech savvy individual could just build from source and bypass any kind of paywall I put on precompiled binaries. Maybe I could put ads on my stuff? I already hear the revolt: Gasp! Ads!! We don’t want ads on Autonomi apps!! Donations? Fat chance. Maybe I somehow skim some tokens off the top of every upload that goes through the app? That will be bypassed instantly, and just feels wrong (and probably violates some law somewhere).

I don’t need a lambo or a huge mansion, I just want the ability to quit my dead end job and work on projects like Colony. I don’t see a future on this network if there is no way to make a living. Every monetization idea I’ve come up with just won’t work here. Maybe others have ideas. I’m at a loss. What I see happening is that Autonomi becomes just a storage layer for centralized apps. Talking with another IF contender, that’s exactly what they plan to do for the reasons I outlined above.

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It sounds like you’ve had a torrid time.

I gather Android is a much more open platform and you can even install a new app store (by bypassing warnings), which then unblocks other apps being added.

Apple gear? Meh, little chance of that, I suspect. Hopefully, the freedom and privacy conscious are already shunning Apple gear, but who knows?

This is a strong reason for web apps vs dedicated apps though. We only need to get one web gateway into a store and then any web apps can be run locally from it.

It was never going to be easy. Maybe online web gateways will crack the door open, at least. Longer term, folks need to disengage from systems that reduce their freedoms and privacy too.

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Sure, that was my thought too. That was my hope with Colony by bundling it with dweb: Install, search, click on the Autonomi site, done. Maybe that’s the next step then, just setup a company to get this thing out there. Ugh. Technical hurdles I don’t mind, bureaucratic ones I just loathe completely.

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Interesting thoughts on monetisation… it does look like a challenge.

In time, I wonder whether tipping could be a very big part of the solution once it’s easy with low fees etc. With native token in place, people will be able to tip even tiny amounts, and hopefully users knowing they are not the product & devs need to live, a tipping culture will develop to reward developers that provide valuable user experiences.

For a search product on Autonomi, I wonder whether privacy-honouring ‘matchmaking’ between buyers and sellers of goods & services could be part of the solution? Not spammy advertising, but helping consumers find good deals on stuff they want could add value to buyers & sellers, and generate revenue for the developer who links the two effectively. Obviously this won’t work until there are people using the network, but in the future I expect this kind of thing will happen.

I hope some decent models emerge to help devs get well rewarded for providing users with a good experience on Autonomi.

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I hope so as well. There is so much potential here. I’m probably just not be thinking outside of the box enough. Maybe this radical network design requires a complete rethink of how we monetize. A tipping culture would be great, just not sure how feasible that would be to bring in outside developers.

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:smiley: I especially like the randomness of this rule xD

ideally they’d just invert it every other week :face_with_monocle:

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Based on this, my prediction is that for the next 20 years, the main use of the network will be through centralized portals that can be monetized.

This and the fact that all other DePIN crypto projects also go through portals for monetize.

There is no magic with monetization - you have a huge reduction in infrastructure costs, you put 1 server through which the content is accessible and stick ads on it.

Check out the Impossible Futures!

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Comes pretty close to the dream - yes =D

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The dream is for the masses of people to directly demand freedom - this does not happen without external factors. But thanks to good governments like the one in the UK, we are moving in that direction. :happyant:

Check out the Impossible Futures!

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Where would we be without your dry sarcastic wit, @Dimitar ? :hugs:

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What about devs selling access keys for the apps they want to monetize? Assuming app is compiled i suppose. Possible or no? Perhaps an access key system could be built into a browser extension that also exposes the gateway for the network … then even if on a apple phone, you just get the browser extension and can access the network, get a list of apps available on the network and pay for things, including app keys all though one system.

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Me: How’s it going in the UK?
Friend: Can’t complain.

:drum: :sweat_smile:

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I think advertising is something that will never go away, people will always want to advertise their product, business, services… We should just have a fair, transparent, version of Google Ads, that does not violate our privacy and is transparent to the users and advertisers. Something where there is only a relationship between a user and advertiser, without going through a middleman.

I am not technical enough to speak if something like that is possible, but let’s say there is a decentralized library of ads/banners/video ads and behind each of these ads is a certain budget.

You as a Colony dev could decide which of these ads you allow to be displayed in your app and get a rev share. Maybe the end user could get a small rev share to his wallet, too, for being exposed to the ad. If advertiser is happy, he can boost his budget.

It would be great to have something like “Autonomi Ads” app, which is open source and can be used by different app devs to monetize… However, it will take a lot of time to achieve network effects necessary, but behind every overnight success, there is usually 10 years of hard work.

And of course - that doesn’t answer the “We don’t want ads on Autonomi apps!” part. I’m just thinking in terms - if we are making better internet, why not make better ad systems as well?

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We should bear in mind that Apple have long been like this with their devices.

Android, which is about 70% of global share, is easier to install apps on. Worst case, you can install from a link and acknowledge a warning. That includes custom app stores (like amazon did/do).

Ofc, it would be nice to include all mobile devices, but 70% isn’t a bad starting point. The rest could be web gateways until then.

For desktops, the situation is much better across the board too. I think all desktop OS still permit apps to be installed directly.

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Btw, that would be a good app to build - android autonomi app market.

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I understand the concern @zettawatt but do think there will be ways to make money. Some are willing to pay, but don’t want to have to jump through hoops to do it, and we can make that seamless here.

Others will walk five hundred miles to avoid paying anything (or is it for one of my smiles? :laughing:)

Also, the EU has been showing signs of challenging Apple’s walled garden. So far so good, but will it be followed through we don’t yet know. But if it does that’s a big market (500 million people).

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This is a winning idea.

Also linux repos. Currently using https://launchpad.net to host my PPAs.

Would love to host my PPAs on Autonomi. No size limits for a start.

Anything app store like should be moved to Autonomi asap.

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I agree an ad system for Autonomi that respects privacy is a good idea and is inevitable.

What is a PPA?

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Personal Package Archive

If you have ever run on Ubuntu,

apt update

apt upgrade

or apt install posstgresql for example

You are installing update or software from the official ubuntu application repositories using the package manager.

in this case ‘apt’ is the package manager for ubuntu.

You can also host your own repository on launchpad.

If you add the repo details on any linux machine your software is suddenly portable and available from any ubuntu machine you are logged in to.

Launchpad does have limits.

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