Dont be a stranger - stick around and help with the testnets. Its about to become a LOT simpler to join in the testing.
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Most time consuming part of development is implementation of different features, which is done 99% by developers.
Searching for bugs is important too, but if code for some feature is not written, you can’t search for bugs in it, so in such cases tester have no other choice than just wait.
(post was updated)
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OK I’ll give up then.
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Don’t cause we don’t, regardless of the trolling, but we are used to that now 
I think I recognise our man @Vort, smart as a pie and twice as dense 
Come on man, show us how great you really are. The veil is slipping a wee bit there chap.
We will continue to change and iterate to success, and none of what that guy says makes a bit of a difference. If he was so smart he would write the whole thing for us, but I doubt it. the testing is probably more important than the coding right now, but that causes some folk to panic, it won’t matter, we will get there without them.
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Try this for a new avatar…
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I’m not trolling, I’m saying what I see.
Testing is now done within, say, day.
Then testers wait for week(s).
This is not how effective parallelization works.
Testing helps, yes, I agree.
But not as much as some people may think.
At least, relative to speedup of the whole process.
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Your now in charge of catering for the launch party!!
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I hope youse aw like pies. The fussy buggers can have a bridie.
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Community is not involved in code writing process in this project.
Despite it is being theoretically possible, in practice it almost never happens.
It looks like result of intentional decision and such decision is not bad on its own.
But in such case no need to blame community that they do not write code.
I can’t code so I test
@Dimitar can’t code so he puts up posters
@happybeing can’t code^ so he keeps us amused with hilarious excerpts from The Guardian
@Josh can’t code so he sets up testnets
You just moan, which is a pity cos I get the impression you are a very intelligent if rather cynical person
^possibly unfair, but I was on a roll - yes - I self-identify as bacon on alternate Wednesdays. Easy on the HP sauce now.
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I just wanted to prevent people from thinking “I will join testnet and speed up release process several times”. No, you won’t. At least, not significantly.
Because bottleneck (sorry) is not in testing.
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True(ish) - but if nobody tests it could slow down development, possibly significantly. Right now we do not have sufficient numbers of testers. I expect within a few weeks/months we may well need dozens if not hundreds of testers from the community.
Perhaps if we already had that many folk actively working on the testnets some problems may have been uncovered sooner…
In any case,
“given sufficient eyes, any bug is shallow” ← was that Linus who said that?
EDIT wikitionary org claims it was Eric S Raymond.
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Surprisingly, I have completely opposite feeling about it.
I think developers have loong list of uncovered problems already.
Adding one more problem to it will not make others magically disappear.
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perhaps yes, perhaps no
Of course not, not at all. But then we can get a more complete picture and connections/parallels can be drawn which may speed the process.
And again if more people are looking at it - and in the process perhaps understanding the code better then I think it is likely solutions may be found sooner.
But if we don’t have more folk looking at the problems then we certainly will not make the process faster.
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Was @bochaco not originally just another community member? ← Or am I totally mis-remembering?
I know @happybeing has had some PRs accepted and I think there may be some others. As Rust becomes more mainstream, it is possible there will be others before launch.
As we get more folk involved in testing, it is likely they will communicate more widely about the project, raising visibility and hopefully also geek participation.
But none of that can happen if we close it all up.
Its a bit like sales, your immediate contacts may be of little value, but their contacts may be of great value.
I just proved that to myself again only tonight when I was very pleasantly surprised to find out just who one of my neighbours knew well. Turns out this person is exactly who I want to present to. Not only that but in his niche position, he must know several other potential customers.
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The team has a few who were participating community members. @joshuef, @bochaco, @oetyng, @bzee and though not a team member @mav has made several commits. The community make a big difference.
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Spot on. Community members make up the majority of our team. Other staff are here because of the goals/community and the community means a lot to us. More than any other project IMO. We take feedback, enjoy great testing and much more. It’s also a cool forum to hang out on.
We do a lot of internal introspection, too of course, and occasionally have to make a decision and go. We rarely have a unanimous agreement and some folk can get annoyed at us, but that works. I think the balance is good and I know 100% that internally, community matters a lot. We don’t come close to trying to manipulate or control the community either.
It’s a hard job we do, but it’s likely impossible to continue without the community, all the critiques and all the congratulations go together and the debates are amazingly interesting. All of us, I feel, who approach this honestly and with as little ego as possible do get a lot from it.
As for @Vort I appreciate your feedback when it’s helpful, but you have an incredibly tight view of the world as you see it and you tend to be extremely negative. It started small, but I feel you are getting annoyed at the community not joining you and just calling us all incompetent. Your idea that we don’t change code and launch what we have is really stupid, but you seem to pursue your own agenda and I am not fully convinced it is aimed at helping. I actually think you are playing a game and laughing a lot in the background, but your game is over from my perspective.
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Development process looks closed for me.
If such perception is wrong, I’m sorry.
What I see is that decision processes are not public - decisions are made not on forum, not on GitHub.
Commits with code changes just popping out and that’s it. Lots of PRs have “No description provided.” message.
Are hunderds of code lines so obvious that they do not need explanation? I doubt it. Most likely, explanation is just private.
Also it may be interesting to look at amount of closed PRs versus amount of closed Issues at GitHub: 1,870 Closed / 60 Closed. Do it means that PRs have no issues with them? I doubt it too. Most likely, such information is just located somewhere else.
It is great that someone was able to make contributions without having lots of important information. But expecting that many developers will like to work under such conditions is strange.
If I see problems, I’m telling about them.
Sometimes my classification of something as problem is wrong, but I think that it is better to say about it and be wrong, than don’t say and leave problem unnoticed.
My ideas about how something should be done are often bad, if that is the case, it is better just to ignore them.
Annoyance topic is too broad to be discussed here.
As for incompetence, I usually do not say it.
If something is done in a way, which looks problematic for me, then I usually say exactly that.
Can’t understand what you are saying.
If I can help, then I’m helping.
If not (which is happening more often), then I just report about problems which I see.
You may think that criticism should come with solutions, but I don’t think so.
From my point of view, tracking of problems present possibility to make things better.
But if problems are not getting enough attention, then it does not help, of course.
Should such activity be called as play? I don’t know.
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Putting so much energy into being negative is a waste of opportunity.
The core development needs to be focused and the code is there for those of us who want to look it over. It doesn’t take much effort to learn how to read it but you have to not default negative at everything that is new or unclear.
Resolving what does work and testing that is iterative and the community enjoy contributing where they can; its an evolving process.
If there is something you do not understand or cannot do, then there are plenty of other positives you could offer.
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