Why don't we just have our own exchange

I am the one changing the context? you forgot to quote the rest of my sentence where I explain how it is dependent on a project working out to get the benefit of inputting capital at the start the people doing the project received. To me that sounds like a loan. I guess pre-purchasing anything could be a kind of loan… but usually its like um no I don’t need 500 of whatever your kickstarter project makes because I am going to resell them for a profit. I think that’s where things get dangerous. You have crazy fools like me buying way more MAID then we would ever need the safecoin from to use because it’s a very liquid kind of debt. Again I think its a does it look like a duck question. Its pretty obvious what’s buying something to use in advance and what’s an investment type thing in most cases. In this case I don’t think its is presented like we are offering you a chance to buy something you will use and be first in line. Its more presented as buy as much of this as you want to invest because this is an opportunity to turn a profit by being savy and fronting people money that will create more value then the money you fronted.

Go read what a financial instrument is so we don’t have word games.

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Hey @andyypants in order MAID to be a security the company MaidSafe must have promised you would make money if you buy theirs token.

The fact that you use MAID to make money does not make it security…

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I read the damn Wikipedia entry and stand by my belief that a loan is a financial instrument. The question I think we have not reached consensus on is if MAID is a loan or not. If it is a loan then its a financial instrument if its not a loan then it isn’t (for that reason anyways.)

@Dimitar ya I think this is a bit of a grey area. Did they imply a chance to profit from pre-buying safecoin, or did they just say this is zero cash value but if you fools want to say it has value good for you? They might not have explicitly promised profits, but I think by making a crypto and pushing for it to be on exchanges they might have implied there is an investment here. Only real test would be if it went to court where anything can happen

You defined loan as in the exchange doing their internal loans. This is entirely different to loans of MAID. The exchange Poloniex made agreements with the SEC to do these activities.

Now the telling story is BTC is not a security.

Now until you can tell me that BTC is a security then there is NO question that MAID needs to answer. Please use your common sense. BTC is not a security so there is no reason why MAID would be one.

So until you can explain how MAID is somehow doing something more than BTC then there is no need to worry about MAID.

Its very simple and I already explained it. BTC is not a security/loan because there is no bitcoin company that issued it to raise capital for their projects.

In addition MAID does not have a company either. No one controls MAID, if you think someone does then WHO?

Why are you taking things out of context, stretching things way out of proportion to try and claim MAID is a security???

BTC is not a security, ETH (has a company in direct control of the coin) is not a security

So why is MAID which has no company controlling it a security. You have not provided any reason yet.

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no company controls the trade of loans. The way the company becomes involved is at the start when they take the loan and offer the debt certificate (MAID) in exchange.

I think its worth it to see how far things could stretch with a kind of mock trail to prepare ourselves for all scenarios.

Yep the ETH presale fits the mold I am saying MAID is in. The difference is now the cats out of the bag. They got ETH out into the wild where its more of a safecoin like thing that just represents usage of the network, not that vitalik owes you some work. They did this before governments really started cracking down on this kind of thing. I don’t see them laying off either so it could be bad for us just because of the timing of things.

@andyypants if you want to see if they offered financial reward go and read the bct thread.
I dont recall it happening.

Without a SEC ruling or case law I will not be 100% certain wheter or not MAID is a security, no matter how certain anyone feels about it. That’s a situation common to regulators.
As long as this uncertainty exists, no matter how small, there is a risk of delisting depending how much risk the exchange is willing to live with considering profitability of the coin.
(neo: Go convince the SEC or Poloniex; no point in convincing me of anything here.:slight_smile:)

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@bones I don’t think they came right out and said that directly. I also don’t think they said “woah hold on a sec that’s not what this is” when crypto people were like oh hot damn what a good investment. I don’t think they would ever say something in either extreme. So it would be up to a judge to determine what the intent was.

@drirmbda I agree, but I think we should test out the arguments as best we can ourselves. Doesn’t mean that’s for sure how it will go down in court, but I think there is some information there.

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You had asked earlier in the thread if they had.
I was merely pointing out its all there in print if you want to look

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This is true.

But when people say it is a security, then the evidence is against them at this time. As I said IANAL and the SEC can do as they damn please. But at this time we have only heard support from Poloniex and evidence points to the SEC not considering anything like MAID and BTC as a security. Until things change then we can keep calm and continue

@neo I agree, there are more important things to worry about. My fear-top-3 currently is:

  1. MaidSafe giving up by running out of funding,
  2. Obsoletion of the OMNI ecosystem, and
  3. MAID being held hostage by an exchange.
    I can and will do something about #3, but not much about the other two. I consider my “investment” in MAID a donation to a great cause, especially after I move MAID off the exchange.

There is one factor that helps here. The omni protocol/code is opensource so it can be run without need for anyone else. Its BTC that is the critical factor here

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The BTC factor being the blockchain continuing to support OMNI protocol? Or BTC continuing to be mined and stay in existence?

Well for general OMNI use at this time we need both.

For historical transactions we only need a node with the full BTC/OMNI blocks.
For ongoing (as it is now) we need BTC and it being mined.

If BTC died then OMNI could be moved to its own BTC fork and as long that is mined then it would exist. Very disruptive during the conversion, but more than possible.

It doesn’t look like BTC is dying anytime soon though.


Care to elaborate? Are you going to set up some kind of exchange? I’d for sure come play!

@andyypants Sorry for the confusion, I just plan to move MAID off the exchgange to a paper wallet and keep it there. I think I will take the risk of not being able to sell quickly enough. That’s how will I deal with #3 for now.
Next I will focus on looking into the feasibility of a successful launch, and trying to contribute somehow.

ohhh ok ya I read what I wanted to read into that I think lol. I guess then your coins arn’t hostage of one exchange but in a way they are if an emergency expense came up and you needed to liquidate them. Well anyways if the dev team doesn’t want to do an exchange maybe a community member would set up a little corner we could have a MAID market in.