Peter Todd is not a ProjectSAFE fan

Peter Todd works on ‘Dark Wallet’ from a London squat (apparently?) and was involved in a controversy recently when the BBC visited the squat to conduct an interview.

The BBC released an apparently biased version of the interview via it Click program, but has since released the full version due to pressure.

The controversy revolves around Dark Wallet being potentially being utilized by ISIS.

I discussed this in another post: Will The SAFE Network be classified as a 'Dark Web' - #8 by chrisfostertv

If your in the UK you can get the full BBC program here

The transcript of the interview is here or the audio here

You should be able to see that a Dark Wallet and a ProjectSAFE have parallels in their purpose…so any hysteria cooked up here could also come our way.


Peter Todd @petertoddbtc · Sep 30
Much of the Bitcoin community is an infosec cargo-cult; Storj and Maidsafe are decentralisation cargo-cults.

Peter Todd @petertoddbtc · Sep 30
Maidsafe/Storj replaces your ability to choose providers based on meaningful human metrics with a dumb algorithm using bad data.

Emin Gün Sirer @el33th4xor · Sep 30
The academic community went through this 10 years ago. Decentralization for its own sake is often misguided

Peter Todd @petertoddbtc · Sep 30
Maidsafe and Storj add a whole new class of economic incentive exploits to the already hard cloud problem for no obvious gain.

Lets keep track of this kind of stuff


Hysterias come and go. Good code lives on.

Also, “nanny-nanny-boo-boo” is not much of an arguement.


Would not have expected from this guy

He’s been critical since visiting the team several months ago.

I was super annoyed when I first read some of Peter’s tweets the other day, but David’s calmness about it all eased my tensions. :slight_smile:


Nice thread, some very good information in there.


I’m 99.99% convinced that Peter Todd is a Maidsafe fan.
This is just his way of promoting it…

Everybody knows that we need software that mimics nature, to redefine humanature…

Every news/comment/word about Maidsafe is GOOD NEWS, it makes people aware of it. Bad news is even the best news, because common people hear/read about it everyday.

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Yeah your probably right…maybe hanging out in a squat has just made him grumpy…


Yes it’s strange
dumb algorithm - but I do not know what it is
bad data - but I do not know what it is

And on it goes. The fundamental issues seems Peter does not like or agree with decentralised storage and computation and prefers centralisation there (he is very clear on that), but refers to it on twitter like cold fusion (holy grail).

See What is a vision? | Metaquestions for a reminder of my thinking on this kind of thing.

Now think how many innovations in industry this kind of critique could all apply to (bitcoin, web, internet, mesh, car, steam engine, phone, tv, radio … the list is very long)

We have papers going through peer-review, some complete and lots of info on line, so if we have a bad algorithm it should be able to be debated head on and as deep and technical as we want.

If you take Peters recent foray and replace storage providers (google, dropbox etc.) with banks and then SAFE with bitcoin, its a perfect fit, which is also strange.

I just always read, I do not know what you are doing or how you are doing it but you cannot do as its too hard that and if you did do it then its rubbish, and I say that just because … so there!

Great way to get famous though :smiley:


Peters depiction of maidsafe:


Well put David and a timely reminder for us kindred spirits that people have different reasons to not share the vision.

For those that have not read David’s post What is a vision? it is based off actual observation of peoples reactions to the MaidSAFE vision.

Beginning is easy - Continuing is hard (Japanese Proverb)


Peter’s comments bother me because he is a loudish voice in the crypto community, although not elsewhere I would think.

He hasn’t actually argued much except to say: he has not been convinced there isn’t a Google attack. Well so what. Its not much of a criticism, but he likes to make it.

I had a banter with him over being a troll when he made those critical tweets. The previous time I did this I challenged him more directly on Reddit but he didn’t respond.

First time I thought, ok, he’s just too busy to deal with every prod, but now I think he is actually trolling. He’s not really engaging, so I don’t take him seriously any more. I enjoy the banter instead :slight_smile: and learn from what he comes out with.


MaidSafe technology invalidates quite much of today’s status quo;
It would make sense to closely study, and merge with MaidSafe;

And if it could be done better somewhere, make the proper proposal;


It’s unbelievable how the annoying BBC team pushed the stupid ISIS crap for half the interview… But as I said before, there will be no more than zero fallout from that.
Peter made good arguments in favor of DarkWallet and Amir was great - I especially liked that part where he said “… and there’s nothing you can do about it”. Outstanding!

If Peter is wrong about ProjectSAFE, he’s (in a small way) helping delay a positive sentiment that will appear once the project delivers on its promises, so a good way to express one’s opposition may be to acquire more MAID (just a thought)…

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Yeah, let’s appoint him the poster boy of decentralization… fu*k you government, stop this one.

Co Opting is what the brotherhood of the quo do, this guy is a plant. The ladies get the BitNation chick as their revolutionary mascot.

Apparently he’s on Keiser next up…and he sits on a chair!

I am the prince of chaos LOL

What happened, I used to be such a nice boy

@janitor well said- Isis is bullshit. @chrisfostertv yes if the reference to “co-opted” is for Mr. Todd, that sure seems it. Calling ProjectSAFE or MaidSAFE a “cult” sounds like co-opted bought and paid for language despite the part where he said the good stuff about “can’t stop it.” Maybe he thinks ProjectSAFE is Mi6 or Mi5 or CIA or some such thing?

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I don’t think they are bullshit, I think they are a modern band of ‘Privateers’.


an armed ship owned and officered by private individuals holding a government commission and authorized for use in war, especially in the capture of enemy merchant shipping

Some of their green screen work might not be up to Hollywood standard, but they seem to be blowing some stuff up.

ISIS the name, is a dead give away of course…a bit like naming your ‘scalable blockchain query infrastructure’ as Obelisk

@chrisfostertv even better.

Illuminist kind of stuff. I was reading in Palmer Hall’s classic where the Godess Isis said: “the fruit I brought forth was the sun”

Was that an attempt at humor?

FYI that gun that Amir is holding was self-made using open source designs by Defense Distributed, 3D printing and Ghost Gunner ( As far as I’m concerned these guys are actually creating something.
And there’s nothing you can do about it!


Yes indeed, this makes it doubly corrosive.

3D printing has the potential to hugely disrupt globalization.

Someone who wants to end government and globalization is going to be a proponent of 3D printing I would have thought

Would a gun be your product of choice to promote this disruptive technology.

In Australia we don’t have a gun culture, so my sensitivity to this is probably heightened. But what we do have is a government willing to use an issue like 3D printed guns as an excuse to introduce even more draconian laws.

Yeah all over that stuff, although probably not as well read as you.

I’ll post a video in Off-Topic you might find interesting called ‘Pharistocracy’