the thing about price discovery is there is no specific price to be like oh looks like the price exactly matches the real value, so lets stop doing anything that might make is go higher or lower right now! Otherwise we would not need markets. Unless you are like a government employee you have prolly noticed that in real life things are not linear either. There is the day you got that big promotion and your income spiked. Does that mean you were underpaid before or overpaid now? Not really either, its just the way our species checks out new territory.
Of course the price is actually just what people will pay for it. The essence of promotion is to see if more people will pay for it. So really they are joined at the hip and you can’t promote something and at the same time be like um glad you like it but not for sale. Now I totally understand sometimes things like a ponzi emerge, where people try to say if we all just buy hard somehow we all make money instantly. Obviously that is not true, and I would hope things like that don’t happen to our coin. I mean some idiots getting burned can really mess up a good thing for everyone else sometimes. Still we can’t suck and blow at the same time. You either gotta hide under a rock, or be like you know what some people in DOGE world are scamers/parasites… ok fine that’s generally true of the overall population but we are seeing more benefit then cost from having a conversation.
I sure intend to keep having that conversation with as many people as I can. I also hopped I would find likeminded people here to work on this with. If you go to a DOGE forum people will totally support even the silliest of marketing ideas if someone really believes in them. You come to this forum and for some reason just being like “hey lets mention that Fleming is coming out on twitter to our friends” is suspect like its a sinister agenda where I hope to take your blood. In actuality even really hard in your face selling is not necessarily predatory. Its just getting peoples attention to focus on information that might benefit them.
What makes DOGE great is how the community is a bit psychopathic. Not saying that is a disease but rather quite the opposite! They take risks when other people would be crippled by fear. This community seems more like well medicated or something.
If you do it to make the price change than that is unethical manipulation. Learn ethics 101.
If its to promote a great product then do that. Price will follow.
Again PLEASE do the marketing you want, do not do it to manipulate the price. Otherwise we end up no better than anyone else and end up being like all the others in price too. Hikes and eventually drop off to little value.
my point in this thread about other coins is we WANT to be like others in the crypto space. Specifically DOGE is a shining example because with no real new tech of any kind they have achieved such a big market cap just by spreading the word
. We aren’t making a paradise where no one ever tries to influence anyone else:P We are making a thing for EVERYONE and sadly everyone does include some bad apples, but I still say don’t throw away the bunch! Also I would contend that promoting with the idea price will go up is not in itself unethical if you are really brining people value. If its just a hussle its a hussle and I am not endorsing that at all.
If you are unethical about it then I want no part and will speak out against it. If you do it by marketing (in the normal sense) then I will support you. But if you market to manipulate then again its unethical no matter how many people want it.
Ever wonder why whereever there is a stock market there are laws against people who market the company unethically. Not limited to pumps/dumps marketing but any marketing that is misleading.
um the same we you were referring to in the previous post I guess.
and this is our big disconnect. I am not here saying that we should do something akin to cooking the books to get our stock price up. Exactly as you said, I am saying that good honest sales is no sin and you can totally promote the new iPhone to try to get the price of your apple company up.
I guess the question I would want to ask you here is do you think DOGE is cooking the books? I think they are just showing people a “fun” crypto that brings them value. Maybe you disagree that with no real new technology how can there be any value? I do respect that but I think on balance the DOGE community is doing real friendly helping you buy style sales rather then being a giant cartel of devious miscreants
The we I used was a idiom (or whatever its called), not any particular group.
The we you used was referring to a (specific) group of people and claiming they all wanted what you wanted.
A different animal to SAFE and I do not talk for them in any way.
I gather you are meaning promote SAFE. (No sales involved since the SAFE network is not being sold)
No problems promoting SAFE. I suggest being (as I think you are being) mindful of the very early alpha stage it is at. Even alpha 3 (Fleming) and alpha 4 (Maxwell) are alpha stages, but they do show the viability of SAFE so worthy of appropriate (considering the stage of the project) marketing.
But we don’t have our Iphone yet , its still far from complete for full user experience.
Buying Maid right now is like investing in an early stage biotech, no product yet just research and releases about their progressions and findings. Nothing to really promote besides hey we have this really cool idea and are working towards bringing it to reality right now. The existing stuff in production by MAID at the moment is a far cry from what our “Iphone” really will be(decentralized not just sitting all data on Digital Ocean servers and will have routing/values/safe coin).
I don’t know, maybe the initial rise was due to those 2 covers when the Binance price was already over $4,190 but the 3rd one, bigger than those 2 together, happened when the price was already over $4,195, higher than ever since Christmas. All the rest came after the price already broke out over $4,200 and a quick rise at that point was anything but unexpected. So, there goes the mistery conspiracy again.
well I meant it as an idiom…whatever you call it. Same thing you are saying just a way to say “I think this personally but don’t see it as illogical someone else might also think this”
I am just trying to gage where you consider it promoting vs shilling. Is there a way we can be as effective as the DOGE community at distributing the coin to so many people or can you only win that big by cheating? Yes right now we just have a token but no machine specifically designed to accept it and give you a round of pinball. So without lying that we do have a machine right now, what can we say to potential buyers to try to get them on board at this point in time? I think, there is nothing wrong with selling the symbolism. Same way DOGE promoters are like “buy this coin if you like humor” we could be like “buy this coin if you believe in a decentralized internet.” Crypto people at least, can understand this kind of pitch and aren’t fooled into thinking getting in now should be like picking the ripe fruit of a tree someone grew for years before that. Random people in the world that never were on the crypto scene might feel ripped off but, at this point, we are just selling to crypto people so lets promote within the accepted rules of that game. We need to always keep context in the back of our mind for sure. “Trading” for land with north American natives that have no concept of land ownership is scaming, but doing the same thing with someone whos culture does have private land ownership is totally legit and helpful to them. Right now we are at the stage where only a small group of people that have experience in digital assets are the target market. We are trying to go from supermassive bags to bags still larger then you really need personally to use, but somewhat less massive. When we are at the stage of distributing those bags to the end consumer then the rules of engagement become very different.
So at that point is it not fair to say you could sell it, but maybe only to fellow scientists that understand the feasibility of this idea and can look at the current research and evaluate how things are going? That’s the point I was making above. Crypto people don’t need you to pad the room for them. They are used to investing in highly speculative digital assets. We aren’t at the stage where I am selling MAID to my grandmother yet. But we are at the stage where I think its not dishonest to show it to fellow crypto people and be like “does this look like it has potential in your professional opinion”
There is a lot of variations here. There is no magic line. But pumping and promoting for the purpose of raising/dropping the price turns good promotion into bad or unethical, simply because it is not honest. This is different to promoting while knowing it will only have good effects on price. It is the intent rather than the actual method.
what about a promotion like “I think MAID will go up in price because of the Flemming milestones… good time to buy now” I mean most crypto twitter promotion comes in the form of investment advice and involves at least allusions to price, because the target audience are investors.
The fact that its illegal to do that for shares should tell you a lot. You decide.
To make the comment “I think MAID will go up in price because of the Flemming milestones… good time to buy now” in your social media (etc) is fine ethically but to turn it into a promotion is then a different story. There are plenty of stories of people doing this exact thing with shares who were either fined heavily or jailed. Its unethical and just a way to pump the price of a coin.
Now if you go out and promote Flemming, then you are promoting the product “SAFE” and that should always be fine. But to promote the coin price is not. I know you are a crypto trader and this is normal practice for crypto traders (to promote the price) but does not make it ethical.
tl;dr
In the end I cannot tell you what to do and none of my comments should be taken that way. But I can and often will try to discourage it in respect to SAFE as this activity usually (~ always) hurts the product in the long run since new people get unrealistic expectations and generally reject the project after expectations are not meant due to the dump resulting from the promotion (pump)
If we go back to Alpha 2, it is pretty difficult to say there was any uptick due to that milestone alone given the crazy market at the time. It will be good to see the impact of Flemming without the craziness
I call it more analyzing the coin price. If I think it’s going up I honestly say that and give my reasons why. If I think it’s going down, which has been the case for MAID in the past, I don’t hesitate to point that out. I realize there might be some conflict of interest because I own some MAID and maybe I am just saying that I think it’s going up to find greater fools to dump my bags on. I would agree that is unethical. I don’t think being like a news reporter and giving an opinion on what is happening in the world and how that will effect price is bad.
its not illegal for an analyst to publish an opinion that is clearly bullish or bearish. Its just illegal for someone to be like I give you my 100% guarantee this is going up, especially if you are like on the board of directors of that company. I guess the real difference is the dev team doesn’t pay me, so I am just yelling things on the street corner and you can’t take away my free speech. If I was a paid member of the marketing team then sure the rules of engagement would become different.
It seems you are seeing this as black/white and not seeing the ethics behind the reasoning. I’m sorry for my failure for not being able to make the reasoning clearer.
, its still far from complete for full user experience.