NVO Decentralized Exchange - Crowdsale

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676

Hey @tonbi so tokens will be distributed on counterparty correct? What are the plans for exchanges?

677

Bittrex is ideal until our exchange rolls out

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678

In registering for this ICO and imputing my public Bitcoin Address key, I see it gave me a bunch of return addresses for various crypto currencies. I did not recall seeing a specific amount and wondered what to do next. I could not find any details to this on the NVO website on some percentage figures relating to returns. I discovered the ‘Slack’ NVO forum dealing with this and discovered that you give money to NVO. What you put in is proportional to what you get back. They said “there is no minimum or maximum I believe” - “I believe”???

NVO: “50% of fees. Proportional in that if 1,000 invested and you have 100 invested, you would get back 10% of the 50% from user fees”
NVO: There is no minimum, and no maximum, however, regarding bitcoin, it is good to send more then 0.005 BTC because of transaction fees" - 0.005BTC = $13.50 USD

Me: Question on the 1000 & 100
NVO: “was just giving an example @pinball from what I understand not citing actual figures”
NVO: The token distribution is, 15M nvo tokens will be proportionally distributed to each crowdsale participant then, NVOS which is a sub token, will be sent proportionally to the amount of NVOT held by each NVO wallet the Amount of NVOS created will be equal to 50% of the fees collected, each NVOS will represent 99cent in Bitcoin you will have the ability to either exchange them for bitcoin, or keep them on a paper wallet for later use.
Me:
NVO: “from the fees 50% of 0.2% each way - proportional to your investment”
Me: "So, as with any ICO, we have to trust (with our donations) that you aren’t going to run away with the cash.
NVO: “the difference is that we have escrows who releases the funds in milestones, they won’t release 100% of the funds”
NVO: "the escrows are trusted third parties coming from the bticointalk forum.They are responcible for the funds management as long as we have an escrow agreement with them in our case, we agreed that the escrows will release the funds based on milestone model, not a full release
NVO: “it is a risk. So never invest more than you can afford to lose. Also a positive is that projects that fail, you can usually write off as a loss on your tax bill be cheaper”
NVO: “Yes, it is a protection for the participants”
Me: “Can I get an average on what most people are donating in USD?”
NVO: “you open the escrow address in blockchain.info and make up your own mind about the average”

  • I had a look on blockchain.info and was confused by the recipient info showing an average of around 30,000 to 35,000 BTC ???
    Me: “I don’t get this figure, being a newbie?”
  • No response
    Me: “So, can I then ask how much you guys on average would have donated towards this ICO?”
    NVO" “you guys”? Who"
    Me: " Sitting their typing"
    NVO: “would have donated? or what is the average donation atm?”
    Me: “atm”
    NVO: “4.7 mill raised. how many investors?”
    Me: “Got me?”
    NVO: “WUT - how many investors in total so far?”
    NVO: “Over 6k investors and over 20k registered”
    Me: “No, how much on average do people invest as a donation?”
    NVO: “lets say 6.66k investors”
    NVO: “I have no idea what you’re asking.”
    NVO: “Lucky number”
    NVO: ““invest as a donation”?”
    Me: “Send for this ICO”
    NVO: “Either it’s an investment or a donation”
    Me: “Send”
    NVO: “number raised/number of investors”
    NVO: “the average is like $750”
    NVO: “assuming 6.2k investors and 4.7 mill raised”
    Me: “So, can I bounce some things I’ve seen in other wallets i.e. Jaxx and exodus?”
    First up, Jaxx = no pass key and hackable, even when not running, but computer on (apparently). Exodus, passkey, but does not stress that it should be a longer pass key. Jaxx and Exodus = not signable, like electrum. Jaxx and Exodus = complaints about using shapeshift i.e. people say fees are high, but some are willling to pay this for the hassles avoided going through exchanges and being speedy."
    NVO: “Just use Electrum for BTC”
    Me: “Yes, but you guys are going to create your own wallet like jaxx and exodus right? So, I’m just wondering if you have seen this problem and avoid them in your wallet?”
    NVO: "JAXX isn’t more hackable then any other project, you can do the same with exodus (didn’t tried, but it should be) it is just that most of the projects use a built-in database, JAXX use pouchdb (last time i checked) it is not a flaw, because your computer have to be compromised, and you need a specific tool to exploit it properly
    Me: “Okay, just relating to what people say online, which, when I as a user see, think - Avoid and then go to electrum”
  • My question relates to building as superior wallet in sync with its exchange from a money making business perspective.
    NVO: “you haven’t been reading the latest stuff on Jaxx then Unsalted SHA256 Plaintext PIN”
    Me: “So your wallet is going to be super dooper?”
    NVO: “like bradley cooper, as fly as a hooper?”
    Me: “A1 that gets the top rating? And with a team that has the passion I’m seeing out of the people working with PIV crypto. (No answer)
    Me: “I should be videoing this moment. Something to present to a business board meeting.” - No answer
    Me: “Thanks. Goodby.”
    Log out
    Found NVO demo wallet and tried it on my mac - Very basic
    Log back in later
    Me: : “Are you guys the people from NVO or are people who work for Slack?”
    NVO: “Nvo lol”
    Me: “Now I’m really worrried.”
    NVO: “Y”
    Other forum Member: " so now i’m curious to calculate an approximate ROI”
    NVO: “you wont get any until we see the system working”
    OFM: " i know but as an investor still good to know, there are 15million tokens correct, so 15million divided into 5million"
    NWO: “itll be like 0.01/day per NVOT, if the exchange works well and is competetive" OFM: "yeah so i calculated that the approximate price of an NVOT will be 3usd" NWO: "so you want to speculate?, I mean you could just relax and enjoy passive income" OFM: " no, speculation, just trying to figure out how much money i have to invest for a certain number of nvot, i think 3000usd for 1000nvot, very grossly, so 1000 nvots * 0.01/day, = 10usd/day, in a year that is 3650 usd, in a year i could get back investment + some extra, i'm really excited about NVO, i mean it is the first of its kind, bts is different, waves is different, but one more questiion, nvot holders will get nvos" NWO: " its the way to convert your returns in btc, via , nvos will always be $0.99”

So, tiresome to go through all of this. Why wasn’t there clear instructions as to deposit of money. why the caginess? Why the brush off in way of my questions towards the NVO wallet and no answer in the end?

Can anyone make better sense of all of this? Is this legit or a scam? $750 on average investment to receive yearly residual income? $3650 USD going to take a year to see money back and thereafter sweet money ongoing?
Anyone?

679

Hi,
Here is the guide. You should decide whether this is a a scam or not before you participate.
https://medium.com/nvo-exchange/how-to-contribute-to-the-nvo-crowdsale-d3e4453e3d7d

680

Hi, I had to take Yani because we had to talk about recruitment for developers.

There was, but the problem is that in general, nobody reads the FAQ, if someone missed a question, you can always ask it in private, because sometimes we can not stay too long before the PC. And sometimes, there is too much activity in the general channel.

681

The crowdsale is nearing its end, 3days left, I would like to start the phase No2, we are looking for consulting developers to check the development specifications.

A knowledge of the solutions proposed by blockstream is greatly desired. We avoided using Ethereum for security reasons, because in case of a flaw, it would be possible to extract the funds from the wallets, which would lead to a scenario like the DAO. Waves has not yet implemented such functions.

The validator will be a wrapper around the technologies offered by blockstream, in case the technology changes, or is not sufficiently adapted, so that the validator won’t be affected and will save its versatility.

We did not want to consult directly with companies, we wanted to talk to the community first and see what they think about it, because it’s a decentralized project. I invite you to send me your resume in private message, I would contact you thereafter.

As regards to the profile :

  • Experience desired in the technologies offered by blockstream.

  • Experience in blockchain architecture.

  • Experience in software engeneering.

  • Experience in decentralized projects.

  • Open minded.

  • Supports remote work.

  • Dynamic and innovative.

The aim of this recruitment is to set up a team composed of IT devs and consultants in blockchain technologies, in order to prepare the project’s requirements, check the specifications and set up a viable roadmap in relation to development based on the objectives of the project.

Thank you for your participation.

682

NVO project has a lot potential and I think lots people like the idea NVO proposed and support it. NVO has my support and investment as well. It seems NVO has enough funding and can have a better way to recruit the best talented developers instead of asking for resume on this forum which the candidate’s credentials is unknown. IMO, this seems not a right way to recruit a talented people.

I have 15+ years software + hardware design experience in the high-tech industry. We ask for the resumes by asking experience designers to refer their friends with bonus if the recruitment is secured by the referral. Use the funding to hire headhunter or ask the experienced developers/friends in this field to get a referral first and filter/screen from there.

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683

You are totally right, but i think it is better to give a chance to the community first, as the objective is to setup a team who wants to work in NVO, not people subjugated by their experience.
For example i could have checked with greenhouse, but i think it is better to respect the origine of the project, decentralization. Everyone should be welcomed to apply, as long as they pass the qualifications.
I would like to keep your contacts by PM if possible, i had a lot of interest for omputer engineering and industrial electrical engineering.

1 Like
684

NVO has a “sounds great idea” and sustainable business model in my opinion. And the ico seems securing enough funding as of today. Most importantly, Alex (Alexander Alexandrov) is on board as the advisor who is also the CEO of Coinpayments that NVO partners with. That means the 200,000 Coinpayments clients could be the potential customers using NVO exchange. Now, the success of this project is totally on the development team whether they are capable of executing and delivering for each milestone and on schedule. That is why the recruitment of the right people on board is so critical at this moment. One more option is that Alex maybe a good resource to refer someone he knows from his network to fit onto your team. Please do not treat it lightly and prove to those who are wrongly opposed to your team’s competence.

I agree with Yanni’s video clip #3 “A project of this caliber would have more people working on the infrasturcure?” The answer is not necessary. From my personal experience, some critical project only needs a few people on board who are all able to contribute and capable of making things happen no matter what. The 20/80 principle also applies here. That means only 20% of the people (even less) contribute more than 80% of people’s work in the organization. I agree the real org and staff can come later. But I think you do need to recruit some talented people on board based on the complexity of this project. IMO, NVO’s project different from SafeNet is that SafeNet is building the infrastructure which quality is very important. So SafeNet taking a longer time to deliver seems still ok (but it still taking too long). NVO’s project is a wrapper/modules to the platform. That means the time-to-market is very important. The qualification (based on the resume), determination and hard-working are all essential, but that is not good enough. What I mean is that qualified is not equal to capable. Determined in your mind and hard-working does not mean you can deliver. Recruit the right ones and build a good team and deliver as promised. So the success of NVO is now the people, people and still the people in the team.

685

Did you heard about 0x project on Ethereum blockchain? What is difference between 0x and Nvo?

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686

It’s a protocol, we are a platform, and they only support erc20 tokens. They are likely to raise at least 50 times more than NVO for their protocol using ETH.

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687

Was Safex legit or a scam? - similar scenario to my mind. I’d say yet another very questionable pitch for Safe community cash once again on this forum. Personally, I don’t think there’s any need whatsoever for any more decentralised exchanges. The fact that the plethora of existing ones are not working out to be as popular as expected, with little revenue from transactions - seems like a poor ROI to me.
Most people are more comfortable with centralised exchanges nowadays, as they seem to have got their act together a lot better I think.
I admit I’m tempted by the promises of excellent security, by way of “Super Dooper” wallets and I know I can sleep soundly at night, safe in the knowledge that “escrows are trusted third parties coming from the bticointalk forum”… lol…who are “responcible (sic) for the funds management.”.How responsible do these people sound, who literally can’t even spell the word… :smile:
However, if you have any concerns about this aspect…don’t worry…you are fully protected…
.“Also a positive is that projects that fail, you can usually write off as a loss on your tax bill be cheaper, It is a protection for the participants”…
Anyway, to cut to the chase, the offer to the Community here is:
Give us your money and we’ll build yet another de-centralised exchange which may be hosted on Safenet or not (see question 2 of the 10)
The implied.ultimatum given to Maidsafe and the Community is that they have up to 10 months to create a working Network that meets NVO’s requirements - otherwise they will build on top of something else…now where have I heard all this before…oh yeah…I remember… :slight_smile:

.

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688

Thank you AL_Kafir, beautiful.

I had another concern, but I’m not sure if it’s valid. I once worked for an builder on wages. The builder had around 5 or 6 carpenters, builders, and apprentices even. We were working on a major house build and renovation. Next came Christmas, which had a week or so holiday break. What did the builder do? He fired everybody with no owing holiday pay. Not sure about everyone else, but I know I was on wages. Even the builder had to spend time with his family over this period to some extent. Post this, what did the builder do? He rang the people he sacked and offered for them to come back to work; some did, some didn’t.

How does this relate to NWO’s ICO. Well, I’m just thinking of the what if scenarios and wondering if what I’m thinking might fully or proportionately happen. If the NVO did get off the ground and was successful. What if someone came up with the great idea to sell, firstly could they sell? In selling would they have to transfer the payments of the stakeholders along with the NVO company? Could it be sold, or reset up to be sold to the same owners, but who had set up the same company via hidden shelf companies or offshore, companies in a tax haven? What if the people running the NVO made it to appear that the Company is broke, to re-sell?

Now I’m not sure how Crypto companies work, but I’ve seen that there’s a lot of the wild, wild west with these crypto’s, so I might be wrong (or right) in suggesting this, of being cautious, of just throwing it out there, to even triggers of other scenarios of something of a similar nature? It’s easy to rush on in with the fever of crypto currencies. Still, Al_Kafir has brought up certain factors that I never new about and will have to research. Of course there have been people that have taken a gamble and have gotten lucky, but beyond this I’m sure that there are intelligent minds out there that know how the top business world operates and can work all this out better than I can; people with experience and knowledge. I’m sure that there are very intelligent and rich people playing with crypto world and laughing to the bank; laughing off of dumb money especially.

Who knows, this NVO ICO might pay well. I’ll be looking at What Al_Kafir has said and researching this, but it don’t look good for me putting in money on this ICO, especially as I’m thinking that I can try to trade with this money to make more money in the mean time. There’s also the prospect of some crypto’s now offering residual incomes dependent upon how many crypto’s you have purchased in reaching these levels.

Now let me look at Safex.

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689

Comparing NVO to Safex is the same as comparing NVO to every other project out there. We really have nothing in common. Might as well compare NVO to silk road.

Bitfinex hack was just around 1-2 years ago. If you are comfortable with centralized exchanges then you probably haven’t tried exchanging with high volume yet.

We answered that question please check the video. If you have problems with that answer no other answer will satisfy you.

690

N.B. SAFEX has nothing to do with maidsafe or the safenetwork. It uses its own blockchain (Chilli blockchainor something I think it’s called) and is a decentralised marketplace competing with openbazaa etc (nothing like NVO really), rather than just a currency exchange. It raised about $50k at the ICO on this forum and flipped from being a safenetwork project to blockchain after a few months of impatience that SAFE hadn’t launched. The flip of that project is part of the reason the community is often sceptical and cynical now with new projects. Once burned, twice shy and all that :wink:

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691

I was clearly comparing the pitch made to the Community, not the projects themselves. You are creating a straw man to argue against.[quote=“tonbi, post:689, topic:13608”]
Bitfinex hack was just around 1-2 years ago
[/quote]

Like I said, they seem to have got their act together since then.[quote=“tonbi, post:689, topic:13608”]
If you are comfortable with centralized exchanges
[/quote]

I’m not particularly, I said "most people.[quote=“tonbi, post:689, topic:13608”]
If you have problems with that answer no other answer will satisfy you.
[/quote]

I explained the problems I have and if you cannot satisfy me, then probably you won’t satisfy others either. A rather terse and empty response I think.

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692

It’s important to recognize the risks. We try to have control over aspects of the project to limit risk factors like the safenetwork question. Some risk factors even we can’t control like the whale in our crowdsale that bought more than 20% of the tokens.

693

Thank you Jabba for your input.

I went back and had a look at the info relating to the NVO ICO funds being held by escrows - “escrows are trusted third party parties coming from the btcointalk forum”. I assume that this is the Bitcoin escrow Services listed on this web page: Bitcoin Escrow Service - Securely Buy & Sell Bitcoin - +Bitcoin
I wouldn’t know how powerful the policing powers of this organisation is, what it’s track record is, but it sounds like they will keep the money in hold until all transactions are fulfilled. Obviously, there continue to be organisations, government inclusive, that are corruptible/corrupt. Have there been any issues with this organisation? On face value it sound decent, better than nothing.

Looking at Al_Kafir’s recommendation to look at Yani Bragui’s answering of Question 2 of 10 and Yani seems confident that things should get through smoothly. What info he has in relation to what has transpired since SAFEX’s issues, I certainly don’t know.

Well, my example as per the builder story I gave, seems to fit somewhat in relation to what Jabba has revealed regarding Safe Exchange (SAFEX) i.e. a change of course. Trying to search for a history of safex looks like a mammoth task i.e. lots of issues. The end factor of this is, did people lose money with this change of course with SAFEX going from a safenetwork project to blockchain?

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694

Nobody needed to lose money on SAFEX because if they held I think on current prices they are holding a large profit. The reasons for dissatisfaction were disappointment in that the project pivoted, but magnified several times by the way it was done.

The main reason I think for community animosity towards SAFEX is that the lead dev/founder turned from a massive fan of SAFEnetwork, and a respected and trusted community member, into a critic of both the project and the MaidSafe team (including calling it a scam IIRC). He also took the domain that he registered and owned (safenetwork.io) and which was in use by everyone as the home of this forum and linked to by all and sundry, and redirected it to his own project. That was a lot for the community who still trust the team and believe in the technology to stomach. I still don’t understand why he turned so violently, nor why he acted with what seems to me such a lack of integrity (regarding the domain). He’s had ample opportunity to explain but again seems not to care about anyone else’s wish to understand, or the impact he’s had on others.

If people sold at a bad time, they may well have lost out, and perhaps some did so in order to break their link with SAFEX in response to Daniel’s behaviour, but that would be their decision and not to my mind Daniel’s responsibility. At this point it would not be a loss, as I say, a sizeable profit from crowdsale to here, much as with SAFEnetwork itself.

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695

Much thanks Happybeing for answering my question and shedding light on this issue.

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