No money - no computer

OK, it’s not quite that bad. I don’t have a computer of my own. Currently I’m sitting at a PC in a branch of our municipal library here in Oslo, Norway. But I wonder if provisions are made in this system for people like myself (and probably the “African coming out of the bush” which was given as an example in the two-part Max Keiser interview I just watched) to be able to participate?

Also, I have no money. This stems from a decision I made 13 years ago, and which has since been strengthened by my religious conviction (“money is bad. period.”). So what I’m looking for are systems which welcome people without money, who are willing to contribute in “other ways”. Obviously these other ways would exclude sharing my computer (I suppose?). Or would it actually be possible for me when I sit down at a public terminal to share its resources for the very limited amount of time I’m on it before its next users logs on? (Remember, these systems often will not allow you to download and install any programs - one system I use, and which a lot of disenfranchised people here in Norway use, doesn’t even allow other browsers than IE to be used.)


I wouldn’t recommand entering any password on a public computer.
You can get a second hand laptop for 50 euros.

You should use sound money ie cryptocurrencies or if you don’t want to use any kind of money you could exchange a service for a laptop.
I wonder how you manage to live without any money at all in this day and age…

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Welcome to the forum!

That could work, but when some whizkid installs a keylogger on that system your privacy is gone. Your whole account may be stolen etc. Maybe make a little money and spend it directly on a little laptop to be used with open WiFi? That way you only had a little money for a while? I don’t see any problem with that.

Browsing SAFEnet will be free. So if you browse some sites, and you create a nice blog, goal achieved I believe.


Welcome @Halvor. I’m wondering if you are someone whose story I’ve heard discussed fairly recently, I think on the Unwelcome Guests program. Regardless, it’s not a choice most would have the guts to make, and I honor it.

To answer your question, sort of anyway: It won’t be necessary to own a computer or farm to benefit a lot from the existence of the SAFE Network. Access to a computer with the software installed is all that will be needed to access data on the network. To store data and to communicate will take safecoin (probably not a whole lot, though). This will be more and more available through charity or by exchanging whatever with what I anticipate will be a fast-growing number of people who will be contributing resource to the network and thus farming safecoin.

Will everyone be caught up in the benefits of the network from the start? No, of course not. But the granularity of reach of the network will soon give access to more and more people in lower and lower “economic” (for lack of a better term) circumstances.

Hardware security is an issue which will definitely factor in. Public Library access will likely not be accessible very soon. But likely other options will be.

Once you got access to the network and the ability to store data, one such as yourself might find it rewarding to share your experiences in your moneyless adventure on the network via something like N99 which will pay you 99% of the safecoin earned thru people accessing your posts. Who knows where this could lead.

Of course, if you consider safecoin one of he money-type things you must avoid . . . Well, don’t know what to say about that.


No, even if I was gifted a computer that would be a bad idea. Among my many other idiosyncrasies, I also keep nothing under lock and key, e.g. my apartment is unlocked at all times (whether i’m home or not), hence I don’t own and I cannot own any tradable commodities.

I’m still sitting on the fence as to whether or not I can use crypto money. Also I will not trade… meaning, I’d be happy to provide any service I would be particularly suited to offer, but I would refuse any compensation. I will accept gifts only from individuals whom I consider to be ethical.

The issue with not wanting to use money is two-pronged:

  1. money hides the chain of transactions of value objects. People who use money have no way of safeguarding against becoming complicit in extending or promulgating would-be unethical activities at preceding links in the transaction chain. Only by not using untraceable currencies, and concurrently implementing some level of vetting people from whom I receive “stuff”, will I contribute vigorously to putting a stop to unethical profiting.
  2. I only want to support gift economies, or at the very least system which attempt to facilitate and promote gift economics.

I am clearly highly vulnerable to identity theft. On my Facebook profile (which I recently stopped using due to several recent instances of insufferable censorship) I have openly listed all my passwords, not too conspicuously, but still locatable without too much effort. In the period going back 8 years now since I started this practice I have experienced unauthorized and malign entry to my accounts on a few occasions only, and nothing that couldn’t be remedied without too much trouble. I realize of course that I could have been hit much harder.

Basically, I don’t believe in passwords. For individuals in certain circumstances, my own included, protecting passwords is cumbersome at best, unsustainable at worst. In my case it is simply unsustainable. What I need is something which mitigates the vulnerability which a stolen and abused password could cause, e.g. some kind of rollback feature and an n+p friends system to retrieve my account. In such cases I would not in present circumstances expect to be indemnified, but I would like to contribute to a system being developed that minimizes the damage given the premise of my relatively insecure circumstances.

You may find the “Fair Coop” and “Fair coin” projects of interest, which may be more up your Street (just use search on forum to find thread) Safecoin is inherently anonymous/untraceable, so don’t think what you are looking for really. Actually, as your profile states you work for the “real” god and not any of the fake one’s, couldn’t you just ask your boss to clarify whether you can use crypto or not? :smiley:


Thank you! I have no idea what the Unwelcome Guests program is all about, and I find it hard to think that you should have been discussing me in any relevant context since I haven’t become involved with MaidSafe before now. I haven’t been at all vocal about my no money practice either. I’d be surprised if that wasn’t someone else. And as for my guts I have made a lot of experiences living in the manner which I do for a considerable number of years already. I hope this is sharable information that could benefit an endeavor such as MaidSafe and its tangents.

So, when you write “a computer with the software installed” does that necessitate a benevolent and enlightened system administrator in the many cases of systems where I as a mere user am prohibited from installing software? Or would a Firefox add-on be available? How about that one system to which I alluded in my original post which only offers IE? (That is a huge system here in Norway offering PC terminals to welfare clients and job seekers at the ubiquitous premises across the country of this government-administered agency.)

[quote=“fergish, post:4, topic:4542, full:true”]To store data and to communicate will take safecoin (probably not a whole lot, though). This will be more and more available through charity or by exchanging whatever with what I anticipate will be a fast-growing number of people who will be contributing resource to the network and thus farming safecoin.
These are issues which I must learn more about.

Right, there’s a pivotal issue. I wrote about my general requirements for a transaction system in my reply to @malice above. However, I will attempt to be as flexible as I can if I find that this system of MaidSafe/safecoin is something which could potentially incorporate features or specifications which would satisfy all of them, even in the event that they do not in their current form.

So, as I currently only have such access, this means…?

I’m not sure exactly what you are explaining here, specifically I haven’t yet read anything about “N99” (do you have a link?), but if sharing my writing can in ways generate value towards expenditure of network resources, then this must be interesting. Perhaps I can also constribute in other ways. Althoug I don’t program basically, I have been known to get into e.g. scripting (I wrote a somewhat coveted mIRC script back in the days and I’ve also done work on developing MediaWiki templates) and administrative/organizing work to extend and refine the user experience.

I appreciate very much your opinion. If the present community would clearly fail to fit with my requirements, realizing this right from the outset or early on would be a good thing.

Now, these two other projects which you mention, would they at all be of the nature of MaidSafe/MegaNet/Storj/Alexandria? I’m looking for platforms for information sharing and information building, i.e. an intermix of a microblogging platform, a comprehensive and unitary forums platform, Wikipedia and the web at large, all on a censorship-resistant, open and free infrastructure. (Where ‘free’ only means that money is not a requirement for operating or participating, but where other forms of currency, e.g. one’s contributions, could exist).

[quote=“Al_Kafir, post:7, topic:4542, full:true”]Actually, as your profile states you work for the “real” god and not any of the fake one’s, couldn’t you just ask your boss to clarify whether you can use crypto or not? :smiley:
Obviously, when I reflect on these issues, whether or not I can go into certain activities, there are ethical principles against which I attempt to weigh any would-be actions, and these principles are continually refined in step with my evolving religious work (i.e. as my communication with the godhead is consolidated and refined). So it’s a process. I can’t simply make an order and receive an automagical answer.

I don’t think FairCoop provide the platform you require,its more that their ethics and goals may be in allignment to your own and that the Crypto they use is tied into this ethos.

No, of course not…it was ridiculous of me to suggest such a thing really - obviously there would be certain hoops to jump through before being able to get a direct line to the Creator of the Universe.

Actually maybe this is something Safe Network could help with as there will be a secure messaging app that maybe you could communicate with the Godhead on?

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Okay. Your are not the drop out I suspected you were. :smile:

No you probably won’t have access to the SAFE Network at a public library any time right away. IE is definitely going away soon regardless.

Perhaps a tablet or cheap netbook and public wifi? That way you could install what you want. Probably not great for farming, but access to the network, and with the gift of a touch of safecoin you’re on your way.

I don’t know if the network will fit for you. Probably not immediately. Once it is truly up and running, though, I think things will change slowly at first and then take off like a rocket. That’s when you’re likely to find it very useful. As of now, we’re not into practical deployment as yet and are only imagining a lot of what might be done and/or happen.

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If you said money is bad then you shouldn’t be using computers in the first place. PC is a commodity. Which allows you to trade data for data. Internet data is considered a commodity. In fact, you should not be using any type of commodity. Any commodity is considered money only if it is highly tradable, and easily divisional. Before the American Revolution, the colonist were trading tobacco as a medium of exchange. The American Indians used beads or corn as their medium of exchange. Everything were weight in. Fiat is not considered money but rather a scam IPO. If you’re gonna imply, “I meant fiat.” Then you should be using the right termnology. Fiat is bad/evil.

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Something I can see as a benefit (that others have said, but maybe not with words that fit for you) for the use of the network in your lifestyle of “no money” is that the value you earn by providing content for others to partake of isn’t given by anyone. The network is designed in a way that gives credit to the content or resources that are of value to others. By providing a service to others, simply by sharing your ideas, the value (in SafeCoin currency) finds its way to you when others find value in what you offer. Of course, that only solves one side of the currency equation: ensuring that it hasn’t been used in disagreeable ways in getting to you – there’s no guarantee of its going to good use after being spent.

And @Al_Kafir, no fair picking on someone for a belief. I could do the same if you found spiritual reasons to wear only fuzzy slippers. The “what” could be anything, and the “why” is only relevant to the person exploring such an experience. :smile:

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As for the later use of the network subsequent to me having added value to it, if that turned in a direction which I didn’t agree with, I’d simply stop using this platform. I don’t think it needs o be more complicated than that. It’s all a work in progress. I can make judicious compromises if I perceive that this can contribute to a better solution emerging farther on. Obviously my aim goal is not having to make any compromises whatsoever. But we’re not there yet.


Such rigidity would put me into a bubble. There I would starve and make no contributions towards moving the world in the direction I see that it should move. It’s not either act like a saint or “you’re a hypocrite”…


Oh well,
I think you’ve gone a little bit to the extreme.
We have a saying back in Bulgaria, that you cant have both the wolf full and the sheep whole.
Make up your mind amigo. You’re asking for mutually exclusive things.

I don’t see it like that. He’s demonstrating how far it is possible to go - showing others that there are alternatives. I think it’sa great idea.

I met a guy once who did something similar. I bought a few copies of his home made booklet, which contained “I love you” translated into every language.

He was in London, and was making his own currency by drawing a heart on a piece of paper and giving these out, offering them as payment anytime he needed to pay for something. Even travelling in the metro/buses.

Eventually he was arrested and charged, by London Transport I think, and ended up in court. The magistrate heard his story, his beliefs, his sincerity, and dismissed the case.

Last I looked he was selling copies of a book of good deeds, and selling good deeds that he would carry out on behalf of people who didn’t have the time, or the courage to do themselves.

His name is Bird Lovegod in case anyone wants to see what he’s up to now. We need people like this to wake us up to our own absurd assumptions.