Instead of default free space, we should be encouraging charity, etc

Continuing the discussion from Farming Rewards, free space for new users, and processing power rewards:

When visiting Scotland, I had the opportunity to spend time with David and talk about various topics with him. One of them being the likelihood of no default free space in the network. It just makes sense to remove the potential for folks to take advantage of this system and avoid having to force people into proof of human exercises.

We should instead be focusing on way to help others have easy access to safecoin and incentives for charity to those who cannot afford access. I am reaching out to a couple of cryptocurrency exchanges to support safecoin and @dallyshalla is working on a distributed exchange but it will be equally as important to get safecoin in the hands of as many people as possible and find ways to fund access for others.

The Ripple fork, Stellar had this process of linking a Facebook account to earn some stellar then send a certain amount of stellar to another person and earn the same amount you gifted back. But with that we run into the proof of human situation again. However, if the amount of safecoin necessary to get basic usage out of the network was minimal, I don’t imagine it would be hard to convince folks to donate small amounts if it was easy for them to do so… especially if it would get others to join the network to interact with.

David mentioned in an email the concept of splitting creation and activation of accounts. Basically the idea would be that creating an account would be free to do and activation requiring a small cost (ie $0.50). Creating an account would allow individuals to farm safecoin so eventually they would earn enough to activate, even with the smallest device.

What other ways can we create incentive for getting more folks onto the network without giving default free space? Tip bots? How can we best encourage charity and gifting safecoin?

I would personally love to see charity projects focused on getting nodes out so others can farm safecoin and use the network.


This still blocks poor people from contributing anything…

I would hate to miss out on everything that people in rural China or Africa could contribute…

They are getting smartphones these days and it would be amazing to get them online on SAFE.

Can’t they mine at least a bit from their smartphones though?!

I can’t seem to get a comprehensive answer on this.

That would be the #1 sustainable way for them to contribute in a meaningful way

I would hate to miss out on everything that people in rural China or Africa could contribute…

How much are you ready to donate to ensure we get as many contributors as possible?

I’m not sure what you feel is unanswered.

I’ve read that getting SAFE earning on smartphones is a priority many times, just not for the launch itself.

This, plus the - free to register & farm feature - address your very desirable wish I think.


Charity is already covered by @ioptio so I’ll add the mobile device angle.

Once an account is created it can receive donations and/or start earning Safecoin by running in Non-Client mode. I don’t think smart phones would be very efficient at providing mass storage, BUT I do think they will be able to route data as part of the Network infrastructure.

Cell Phone Scenario?
With the exception of certain demographics (social teenagers), most people are not on their smart phones 24/7. People usually charge their smart phone while they sleep. That’s 6-8hrs potential for the Non-Client API to be routing for the SAFE Network. I’m not talking about running a vault, just data routing.

Obviously, this is most effective for those who have “unlimited” plans. For those with limited plans, the trick will be to earn enough Safecoin to cover the Non-Client operation costs. That is dependent on Safecoin’s fiat value and how much they earn per minute. With the growing number of smart phones, Safecoin distribution should not be a problem.

I’m not a smart phone expert. This is just speculation as to how we can make a workable system for mobile users.

Marketing slogan: “Pay for your cell phone by running the SAFE Network API while you sleep!”


Yes this is quite an area of research. @Viv is pretty much the closest we have to an expert in mobile in the office. There are a few issues to deal with. First the physical, battery, network etc. But the biggest issue is the App Marketplaces, Apple is particularly hard on apps, they impose an incredible amount of rules and take a lot of ability away (some app providers have just given up).

So there is a technical issue that is likely to be easily overcome, or will be very soon, but a larger more political issue with App stores.

I feel confident we can achieve this, but I am not ignoring the issues surrounding it. Like you @dyamanaka I am no expert in the mobile environment (I have run vaults and even CI runs on my phone with ubuntu live installed, just to check and it runs everything).

We will need to do some good research here as it’s an enormous area of concern, that and small/old hardware. Particularly in remote, rural and poorer areas. @happybeing and his arm based solar powered tests are really helpful here, we need more people to come up with other crazy schemes.

So I feel, its possible, but will require dedicated research, which is hard just now as we are out of hours per day with launch. I think this will be an area we attack ferociously on launch (in Beta) and will need a ton of help.



In terms of battery life, having it plugged into the charger should mitigate power limitations. The reduced life expectancy on the battery itself is my concern. Cell phone batteries are still expensive. I’ve replaced a few of them myself.

BUT, if the user is able to earn enough to break even, or make a profit on their mobile device. OMG, can you imagine the adoption effect that will take hold? I am very optimistic as technology is constantly improving so our worries may solve itself over time.

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Since using applications on the SAFE Network is mostly free;
except when performing PUTS to vaults;

Therefore apps can be turned into faucets.
For example a “Pac Man” game that has a ton of popularity and is being rewarded by the SAFE Network App developer pool;

Integrating one of these:

would allow people to use SAFE Network without offering much storage space; however bringing to the network GETs which would reward the farmers and create “economy” in the network;
Additionally, the “faucet app” would put the activation safecoins into the peoples’ hands; the game of pacman is a proof of unique human;

+using the decentralized exchange which is a faucet for app coins to users; and also the distributed exchange of bitcoin to safecoin is proving evolutionary - indicated after having shown several individuals who work on exchange and transaction systems for bitcoin.

(I will also note that the app faucets should be looked into thoroughly and the systems to be incorporating the possible abuses of such applications in order to siphon off as much App developer coins as possible)

I always liked the idea of farmers choosing how much storage space they wanted to donate charitably. The network would then distribute free space accordingly.



Apple is not even worth a try.

But Google Play accepts all apps,

And most people globally have Android because of this and it’s overall much more accessible in many ways.

So let’s FOCUS ON ANDROID FOR SAFE!! :smile:

Let’s make it happen!!

I probably disagree with this. Aren’t there are a ton of phones that place a secondary OS layer on top of Android to restrict it?

How difficult would it be to create our own phone, a SAFEphone? Print out a case, stick in a speaker and mic in and then write voip and networking software to run via the SAFE network? Viola encrypted telephony chat with a “phone” hardware interface. Would of course be better with a touch screen so you could do more but yeah.


Wow, that would be amazing…

The SAFEphone would be even more of a grand leap forward than the iPhone was…


I do come up with good ideas from time to time. :smile:

I think the main issue here is that the networking geeks want to use the cell network to route data and such. But really if everyone is carrying a SAFEphone then you could theoretically build a mesh network on top of that mobile platform which would create a distributed decentralized network via all those mobile handhelds.


Instead of apps you could use HTML5 websites. is a great example of a online Bitcoin wallet that can be used on every smartphone. The platform specific building seems so boring.

I think having Maidsafe installed on these hardware could help us spread quicker:



There are more, but as ussual i’m too lazy to dig deeper or remember for now…


Hmmmm I forgot this dude knows a few things about mobile.

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I love this forum :smiley:


@Blindsite2k dude your idea about a SAFEphone is really growing in my mind…

I’m making a whole thread about it


Was there someone in china doing some work for you on mobile?

It sounds like rUDPv2 would need to be in place before the software is efficient enough for mobile. So that’s what, 12 months away?

I think the Nokia 1000 ‘feature phone’ is big in the developing nations. I’ll have a dig around on this.

A lot of these big companies have open source divisions these days…so might be a start just to give a heads up on SAFE and the opportunities ahead.

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Meant to mention this before, but I think this is the best idea I’ve heard so far.