Launch Planning: Community Update 🚀

Development Updates
83

I think that’s further confusion Rob, to be honest.

No matter what currency we have then folk still have to learn crypto. If we could get on exchanges they are also certainly not FIAT exchanges but crypto only. So you need to buy bitcoin or etc and then go to another exchange and change btc or etc for X. Whether X is our token or erc20 based, the route is exactly the same.

As I said previously our transaction based system is, I believe, a much better, faster and more concurrent system than any blockchain. It’s without doubt got many uses, but we need to get to that place. In the meantime it has definite valid uses for transacting other things right now, things that don’t need FIAT onramps. I think that is how we build the native currency, personally.

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84

Better to have a working system for people like this, than no up-and-running system with functional token at all.

A roadblock for some is better than a roadblock for all… and most people who are actually interested in building on decentralised systems will already be aware of the Ethereum system.

Learning how to use ERC20 is such a tiny learning curve, so if someone actually values what Autonomi offers, I doubt it’ll stop them… far better than waiting many months extra before getting a working Autonomi network, which the world needs ASAP.

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85

Given a short time after it exists then there are opportunities for markets to on ramp and off ramp that has nothing to do with crypto. The “gift card” system is well established and well supported method that only requires a company to process them. And of course other ways, no need to be on a trading platform to get value.

This ERC20 seems to be trying to create a instant system rather than growth. But in doing so you get the instant adoption, but have then limited it to a very small circle of people. So faster adoption, but ultimate tiny adoption just like the other storage systems end up. Its not that they are on blockchain that is limiting them, but that they have to use crypto to use

If I am thinking, “how in hell am I going to get ETH and make this work”, imagine others who have never even looked at crypto, and most anti-crypto

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86

I think you are underestimating the reach of the regulators in this field. There is no shortcut that is not laden with issues.

As I said earlier, much larger non blockchain projects have given up on their currency and they were currency only networks. They had a ton of cash and support. It’s that simple.

There is no shortcut we can take and exchanges will not list non blockchain things right now. It’s ultimately where we are at.

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87

Ultimately there will still be the native token, but the whole Autonomi ecosystem will have had a huge headstart with this new approach vs waiting for the Native Token before launching.

This will help adoption rather than hinder it in my view… yes getting ETH is annoying, but if you don’t want to do that and would prefer to wait (which is the situation you’d be in without this change), then you’re still free to wait for the native token.

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88

The ERC20 doesn’t solve those particular problems either as far as I can tell. Same in that respect either way. If they want to come after you then ERC20 or native is the same.

Yes its faster to get going/adopted but very limiting due to becoming crypto for the token

89

As @Southside said, its very rare for projects to do this. And for good reasons due to development work will concentrate on the storage systems since the token is there for payments and that is “solved” already so why spend time & money of continuing the native.

Thats the normal sequence of events.

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90

ERC20 is a recognised route that the lawyers can get behind. Gift cards or similar are not, just imagine the SEC with that proposition. Directors of the company would risk jail and it is that serious.

The tokens being based on data backing are very good. However the route to FIAT on and off is currently via cryptocurrency (native or not) and exchanges to FIAT.

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91

This confuses me in the discussion, some of what has been said suggests our current implementation is not ready, is that correct?

What is the issue with what is in place, or is it just that erc20 solves and erases a bunch of friction, that is what I see. It leapfrogs months if not years of graft.

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92

Where have folk seen this as normal? We are releasing the Transaction data type, it’s one of our 4 foundation types. It’s not going away. I am sure if somebody wanted to go to exchanges and get a currency listed using it then they could.

To be clear the function of our currency is not being removed, it’s still there. That data type is very important. It is the practicality of getting listed and having value that is a brick wall we have come across. The lack of professional wallets etc. I a pain and a problem, but the exchanges are a brick wall.

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93

Bux and Jim are saying that’s absolutely not going to happen (in Discord Stages).

It’s not the ‘normal sequence of events’ for a team to throw out one of the most important concepts relating to their product because they have a hugely limited placeholder operating… the network just won’t be able to deliver as envisaged without the native token, so that would be accepting defeat.

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94

Our current system is in place and being used right now for all the testnets.

[edit] Sorry @Josh to be clear the missing parts are wallets, gui etc. and exchange integration toolkits.

Exactly, it’s the fight we don’t need to have. We have enough of a fight getting the data handling world leading. If we focus there we will be better off. The currency issues, mainly political and market driven are just beyond us and I believe beyond many non blockchain projects to a great extent.

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95

How about this?

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96

That would occur after the real token is being issued. Not in OCT but in Janurary

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97

Do you mean is that the loan scheme being paid out?

As far as I a know that is the plan, Andrew can confirm all those details though. There’s a few docs that need to get signed off and issued for all stakeholders.

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98

Yeah just like when is that due?

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99

If a project relies on a Blockchain to work that project is a Blockchain based project. I didn’t invest in that and I haven’t spent a decade advocating for and helping deliver that.

Today, Autonomi has pivoted to become a Blockchain project, from being a project for which the native token was an integral part. Since the crowdsale over a decade ago (and earlier proposals such as ‘spacecoin’ that preceded that and my involvement).

Some may believe or hope that the native token will still happen, but integration with Blockchain is the biggest threat to that that I can imagine.

So I no longer think we will see a native token. There’s no date for it, David suddenly says exchanges won’t wear it, and the presence of a rival incumbent token, with all its integrations and user adoption make it pie in the sky IMO.

They will continue to try to placate us with promises on that just like the October launch, which was never in prospect in my view from the day it was unveiled.

Note, that this is not just a Blockchain project now, but one where every node has to be able to verify a Blockchain payment has been made for every chunk uploaded. That has wide ranging implications for performance and network properties. It probably means either integration with Blockchain, or with a service run by the Foundation or or other third parties - which would be centralisation.

Neither Blockchain or centralisation are a great look or compatible with the promises made to investors and supporters. Nor are they a remotely good technical solution.

Saying we are currency agnostic isn’t true until there is a native token, and so doesn’t change this. We are now a data network that relies on Blockchain.

From nodes we go to apps, which now have to integrate with a Blockchain wallet in order to make payments or, wait for it, integrate with another third party service to make payments for storage.

So we now pay lip service to decentralisation or goodbye to several of the other features we’ve been promised make this a truly superior project.

Things which relied on the native token are now history.

We can forget micro transactions (hear that @jamms?), and massively scalable, energy efficient, zero fee, instant, anonymous transactions. Much vaunted over the past ten years and now deleted until the unicorn arrives.

Cling to those promises by all means but watch and learn over the next few months.

As soon as I read the new plan I saw this as both a failure to deliver the fundamentals, of the vision of Secure Access For Everyone, and a pivot to something likely to deliver financial returns more quickly.

Some will be happy with that.

I am not, and I’m very surprised to see this happen to Autonomi, because it is not a VC backed project where this kind of betrayal is inevitable.

I have no interest in building Blockchain based applications or supporting a Blockchain based project.

I think investors will make money though so if that’s your priority, by all means support away.

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100

@Bux - please tag me into this as well. I was going to ask the same question. If loan repayment is able to go into the final ERC or just be added to MAID and wait for final native token conversion that all seems fine, but wondering about steps there.

Regarding the 50% token reduction - I think this needs much more clarification. Is this a reduction of the 70% spare tokens (down to 20%)? I.e Where is this reduction happening in the overall scheme of things?

That’s fair enough, but we could fork [Bisq] (https://bisq.network/) and have a truly decentralized peer to peer exchange (WITH FIAT CONVERSION TOO - using trusted third party intermediaries and multisig). Please do consider this option down the road. It could be built into our network, so just install and go buy /sell ERC OR native tokens with NO CENTRALIZED EXCHANGE.

No issues, let’s just use Bisq and then we’re :laughing: :ant: :ant: :ant:

It’s not even faster if we incorporate a a forked Bisq client.

Nope! Bisq!! David the solution exists and is here for the taking.

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101

Perfect, that is what I thought, a lot better than the current system is faulty in some way.

I think this is a wise move. :+1:

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102

I think you are getting the wrong end of the stick here Mark, I won’t argue as you seem dead set in your view and that’s your prerogative,

However

That is just not true, We can use blockchain for the payment side to allow folk to get FIAT → data and back. We do not technically rely on blockchain, the blockchain does not hold data or data identifiers, that’s all the network.

In saying that for FIAT <-data-> FIAT we currently have no choice.

Unless somebody can get exchanges to list our native token with a FIAT on and off ramp then we are kind of stuck.

It is true we are currency agnostic. AS the network USES tokens, but does not create them, we are agnostic. We can use our native token or any other.

As I said, we are not a blockchain based data project and some folk may say we are, but that misses the whole data side of the network and that is the side we need to get up and running.

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