Launch Planning: Community Update 🚀

[TylerAbeoJordan]

@dirvine

to be clear the missing parts are wallets, gui etc. and exchange integration toolkits.

Bisq would give us an instant wallet and GUI too!

The team just needs to have a hackathon to fork bisq and put the network token into it … take a couple of weeks and a lot of coffee and we are there.

[dirvine]

I hear you @TylerAbeoJordan and it will take a brave and hopefully anonymous dev that would do that (fork bisq and put the network token into it). Look at the recent arrests and actions taken against these kinds of projects recently. It’s not a safe route for a company to take for sure.

[Southside]

@neo

As @Southside said, its very rare for projects to do this

Did I?

Or did I forget? alwas possible

[TylerAbeoJordan]

It’s on github and they are actively developing a new version of it. I don’t think the devs are brave or anonymous. Check the legality in your jurisdiction for sure, but I think you are imagining an issue that doesn’t exist (yet!)

[neo]

@Southside

Did I?

here you said it with other nicer words

@Southside

My worry is we will get fobbed off with the ERC-20 token and never see the native token.

[happybeing]

Until there’s an alternative to using Blockchain, to nodes and apps having to integrate with Blockchain or a Blockchain service to handle payments and rewards - this will be a Blockchain based project in almost everyones eyes.

Just like any other storage project that relies on Blockchain for payments and rewards.

[dirvine]

Maybe we need to get more information and I am happy to hear of some, but there is a launch to happen. So time is very very limited for researching this and then the legals etc. It’s far from trivial

As I say, happy to learn more, but it’s a very serious part of the project and the currency part for now is just a get it done thing. Moving on I hope we see a whole new currency based on the Transaction data type. It’s technically much better for nano payments etc.

Happy to hear more though, but time limited right now.

[TylerAbeoJordan]

I understand that launch is happening. I am thinking more toward the January timeframe.

Not sure though what more I can tell you. Have the team’s token devs take a serious look at it and they can tell you.

[dirvine]

@happybeing

this will be a Blockchain based project in almost everyones eyes.

I agree with that Mark. Any use of blockchain will render the project a blockchain offering.

Where I am coming from is that we are agnostic in terms of the data handling. We don’t use a blockchain for that.

I also think though that our native token would have the same effect, it would be a crypto project (it is a cryptocurrency) and in many folks eyes that means a blockchain project, but even though that’s not true, it’s how folk are. I see that with the early avalanche, algorand etc. even us in the press were regarded as blockchain projects. I think that is just part of the human condition to blanket things in that way.

[dirvine]

@TylerAbeoJordan

Have the team’s token devs take a serious look at it and they can tell you.

That means divert resources though, we are limited in how many resources we have. I am not trying to be obtuse, but we cannot afford to divert like that, we need a load more information to get to that place.

I am not sure, but you should look at the projects we are told to integrate with, it’s a long long list and generally folk see a paper o r headline and point us to it. I am not saying you are doing that, but it’s busy time and that is a non trivial issue. Even the era20 has taken some extremely focussed and pressured work in recent weeks.

[dirvine]

@TylerAbeoJordan

Check the legality in your jurisdiction for sure

I think every crypto exchange moved out of the UK many years ago, btw.

[TylerAbeoJordan]

As opposed to forking Bisq, Maidsafe could just approach the Bisq devs and ask how much they’d charge to incorporate it as one of the trading pairs they currently use - Bitcoin, Eth, Monero.

@dirvine

I think every crypto exchange moved out of the UK many years ago, btw.

Keep in mind it’s a peer to peer app, not a CeFi exchange.

[scottefc86]

@dirvine

ERC20 is a recognised route that the lawyers can get behind. Gift cards or similar are not, just imagine the SEC with that proposition. Directors of the company would risk jail and it is that serious.

Has potential fear from the authorities played any part in the decision to switch to the erc-20 payment system?

[TylerAbeoJordan]

I’m still not getting how an ERC token can be used on the network. Obviously it’s not fast enough and gas fees would pretty much break the whole model as it stands … so it must be an intermediary with the network token?

Can anyone explain this more clearly?

[DavidMc0]

@happybeing

Today, Autonomi has pivoted to become a Blockchain project

With that thinking, wasn’t it a Blockchain project from 2014?

The crowd sale in 2014 was a step, using blockchain, to get funds for the project.

The 2024 change is another step, using blockchain, to allow the network to get up and running with a real token economy, ahead of its native token system being sufficiently tested to take the burden of handling massive value.

@happybeing

I no longer think we will see a native token

That’s the opposite of what David, Bux, Jim have said already, and it makes no sense to me.

The network will be up-and-running in a crippled form until the native token is ready… ETH L2s are hugely limited vs the plans for Autonomi’s native tokens.

Do you believe it would be better to put off the launch of a live network with a real economy for months/years because it won’t yet be the ‘full deal’? Why not get going with testing and building sooner with what’s available, and then work towards the full-launch, where the native token gives the whole thing a massive boost in performance / cost / functionality?

@happybeing

We can forget micro transactions (hear that @jamms?), and massively scalable, energy efficient, zero fee, instant, anonymous transactions. Much vaunted over the past ten years and now deleted until the unicorn arrives.

What if this route would actually get the network to that point faster?

I expect the API & data types will allow people to develop all kinds of token systems ahead of the Native Token being fully tested & ready. With the live network, there may be many more developers tinkering and helping find solutions that get the native token ready to go sooner than if the network stayed in this kind of beta phase for much longer, with less attention.

From the beginning, I viewed the transition to the native token to be an incredibly risky event / process. In the early life of the network, the chances of data loss is relatively high. If some of that data happens to be tokens that represent serious value, then it’s a big problem.

This new approach avoids this risk in the network’s early days; it allows the network to start maturing with a real economy, but low-risk token system ahead of the native system being tested sufficiently to hold millions / billions of dollars of value.

Seeing this as the team throwing out promises & settling for a crippled network, rather than as a way to make faster progress seems extremely cynical to me.

[Josh]

@DavidMc0

What if this route would actually get the network to that point faster?

I think it will, it will allow for more funding. The fact that this project ran this long on the money they have is astounding.

[DavidMc0]

It’ll be using an L2 network, so fees will be far lower than ETH L1, but it will still be very hobbled vs a native token.

I think in the discord an estimate of gas fees of $1.20 or so for a 4gb upload were mentioned. If that’s right, it won’t be ideal, but should allow things to get started.

I guess it also means that storage will become a fair bit cheaper once the native token kicks in, which will be a welcome boost for the whole developing ecosystem.

Saying that, having used L2s myself a tiny bit, I wonder if speed will be a bigger limiting factor at first rather than cost? Will be interesting to see.

[TylerAbeoJordan]

Cost is the small factor here though I reckon … I don’t see how it works speed wise. Are we actually converting an ERC into the native token? How? And if not, how can an ERC be used for payments - it would require a complete codebase rewrite wouldn’t it?

Needs a lot more clarification.

[dirvine]

@scottefc86

Has potential fear from the authorities played any part in the decision

It always does, not fear, but awareness and compliance checking etc. This decision is mainly about getting on exchanges and getting launched in any for as fast as we can, but in a way that folk can earn money from. The money part is necessary for growth and adoption.

[Traktion]

It would be great if node operators could choose whether to receive ERC-20 or native tokens for rewards.

Long term, as internal market for native tokens will develop and on/off ramps will be less important. Many may be happy just to earn and spend native tokens.