Been a fan of maidsafe since 2015. Its great to see the network going live after all the hard work!!. However I worry that in the last few years other technologies are starting to fill the gap for some of the features autonomi is trying to solve.
Nostr for one is a simple way of having uncensurable speech. It works great with Bitcoin and lightning and ecash (cashu). You own all your data and can move from one app to another and all your followers come with you. There are Twitter like apps, photo sharing apps and many more. You just login with your private key and you are on all these apps. https://nostr.org/
One area where autonomi has an advantage is data storage. I would love to see autonomi being used with Nostr. Maybe as the backend where your data (photos , music or videos) are stored.
I see a lot of devs building on Nostr. We need to get them to see the advantages of using autonomi either as a backend or a new network.
ps. note posted in ages and might be missing some new info about the network.
This is Ross Ulbricht talking about how he sees an issue about Nostr not scaling. I don’t know how this would work but we need to be in on these conversations. autonomi would be a perfect fit for this…
Is this still Arbitrum $ANT? Not to disempower the launch here, just wondering. Or are we really doing real, native tokens, so we don’t need any outside stuff and the SAFE network runs standalone fully? Or not yet
Edit: oh wait sorry this is an old thread. It had a blue dot so I thought it was new today
There is no native token and there is no plan from the MaidSafe team to have one in the near future. Of course, this is an open source protocol and anyone can develop a version of the node with the ability to accept payments in other tokens including native.
Is native token still on the long term roadmap? A token with no transaction fees, built right into the network, was a huge part of the value proposition of SAFE
The native token is effectively a privacy coin. Those who develop privacy coins can be jailed.
So no, the native token can no longer be on the roadmap.
Nothing is stopping some other team developing a native token, I believe there are no insurmountable technical reasons why this cannot be done.
Good luck with on and off-ramps and actually making a native token work in the real world of today though…
maidsafes “final” solution (before entering blockchain land) was a auditable DAG structure … not really a privacy coin …
but not part of the roadmap anymore - yes
if you search for native in Discord you can find a number of longish posts by David where he refers to native and why he thinks it’s overvalued (at least atm)
it wasn’t abandoned officially but it has no priority atm
Indeed. I think it’s a big value proposition. The privacy aspect, plus low / zero fees, plus huge theoretical capacity seem like big benefits to me… though it wouldn’t be the game changer it would have been back in the day, now there are very cheap blockchain transactions on some L1s and ETH L2s.
The best attempt at a native token solution for Autonomi has come from Loziniak’s efforts here:
David has said there is no technical reason a native token can’t be done, but a viable implementation hasn’t been shown, and he doesn’t include 2-way bridging in his assessment of the ease of implementation. IMO (Edit to add: decentralised) 2-way bridging is essential to remove the need for ‘good luck’ regarding on/off ramps and exchanges for a native AUTONOMI token.
While I think a native token would be beneficial, I see it as a way lower priority than getting the network reliable and creating good user experiences. Merkle tree batching will also solve one of the biggest problems Native Token could solve; high fees, at least for large uploads.
I wonder if the work on Merkle Tree batching could also come in handy when it comes to Native Token implementations later on?
It’s still a great value prop. But, it’s the integration the wider economy that is a pretty huge hurdle… bearing in mind we tried for over a year to enable it — absolutely zero takers — because the costs and the risks ramp providers are perceived as too great. (For example, take the current exchange listings pipeline and add months more integration work for exchnage and £250k a pop… on top of all the usual listing fees etc, then think about wallets, etc etc).
As David says it’s all just data on the network… so it’s free for anyone to play, to build, to go and make their own thing, and more power to them!
But we may find that other technology leapfrogs it in terms of accessibility, integration, and adoption to do the thing we wanted it to do.
Hence the reason we are keeping other avenues open and investigating as per the roadmap.
Given that there is already integration for the ERC20 AUTONOMI, integration with wider economy would no longer be a hurdle for Native Autonomi if there were a 2-way bridge system that’s easy to navigate.
Do you see the main barrier to Native AUTONOMI now being the technical challenges of making a 2-way bridge + native token, or the UX challenges, e.g. adding an extra bridging step to on/off ramping could be a step too far for the UX of normal users?
There’s technical and legal challenges to the 2-way bridge. And I don’t mean privacy coin stuff like some folk are saying… I mean someone has to be the financial intermediary (and do the compliance). That’s why we’d typically use a service or an integration is already there and up and running. So then it’s down to integration, and there’s the cost, risk and expense (as mentioned above).
So this is why we keep on saying things like AP2 might skip all these hurdles and get as the user experience we want (i.e. invisible) and the potential for massive broad integration off the bat (i.e. ubiquitous).
And if those things don’t come to pass, will still keep on pursuing what the network and its users need through other means.
Is this even the case for decentralised 2-way bridges? I didn’t think anyone needs to act as the intermediary when bridging ETH to ARB for example, but don’t know the ins and outs.
What’s great about these potential avenues is appeal to normal people. Native might be great for the crypto crowd, but the market for Autonomi is far bigger, and accessibility to these people will be key for mass adoption.
I think I get you. Stay flexible, keep options open, and see what ends up being best route given the opportunities that emerge.
Not at this time. Also not a refusal for it to be put back.
Also I never recall safecoin being presented as a “privacy” coin in the same way as a totally anonymous coin with no traceability. But more as cash in your pocket.
the people/businesses you transact with, be it nodes, bartering, and so on would see the account and amount it came from, so not so private there.
The obtaining or disposing of safecoin in exchange for a country’s money (on/off ramps) would have ability to expose your privacy. EG exchange that has your KYC
The ability to move safecoin between your own accounts without revealing that to anyone else, same as you can move cash between your pockets, and other places you keep cash.
The ability to choose which pocket to use, and even create pockets seamlessly without outside viewing.
So yes it was private like cash but not a designed privacy coin as such.
And it would have been less of a “privacy” coin in today’s environment.
Although even today with paymaster coming online, if you earn your token with nodes then effectively you are not identified in any blockchain transaction, just like safecoin would have been. Just there is a record of the actual transaction.
For those doing a lot of uploads then the current scenario is akin to you withdraw cash from bank, then going to a flea market and spending up big. The authorities may get to audit all the people running the stalls in the flea market but your spending is not meaningful. But if you make big purchase then it might become meaningful, but that would not be a payment for uploads, but for something of significance.
At this time with blockchain it is not nearly like safecoin unless you totally earn your tokens from storing data and spend with paymaster.
A native token will help reduce the transaction trail like spending cash in a flea market, but as soon as you spend big then due to real world auditing that transaction can be revealed outside of the network.
Yeah I never thought of it as much of a privacy coin. Monero and things like that literally take steps to hide the sender from everyone, even the receiver right? Safecoin doesn’t do any of that. It just doesn’t keep a crazy long blockchain log of where every coin went since the dawn of time, because why would you even want that anyway. Bitcoin etc just did that because they had to, to prove no coin can be double spent, because they didn’t have an interconnected SAFEnet underlying it, right?
And if what everyone’s saying is true about it being so easy, why wouldn’t someone make one now? Have they? Just make a Coin.SomeExtension 1gb file and upload it and send parts (1 byte denonimations) to people? So 1GB / all bytes is the max cap? Literally trying to wrap my brain around how this would work.
You should not listen to (read) statements made by saboteurs , the native token is still on the project agenda, although it is not the highest priority at the moment:
The native token itself will not ensure complete privacy, but it will significantly help to achieve it. The most important benefit will be to facilitate the mass adoption of Autonomi in accordance with the original assumptions of the project, because the current state of affairs, regardless of how much it is improved, constitutes a significant barrier to use for the average internet user.
I don’t think anyone could go to prison for developing NT, because we now have excellent regulatory conditions for its implementation, as the SEC has issued a groundbreaking document that creates a very favourable regulatory environment for DePIN projects such as Autonomi. The native token, based on its definition in the Autonomi White Paper 2.0, fits perfectly into this new definition.
Love this answer. Yes I thought many good things happened in recent years on the regulatory front. Was one reason I got back into SAFE-FS. The world finally came around. No more Ginsler / Warren dictators (these politicians are brought to you by your friends at BoA, WF etc lol)
If you would like to read about the native token, there is quite a lot of information here:
but this discussion does not include the latest key information about regulations that pave the way for Autonomi to develop NT. If you are interested, here is a good summary:
Native will most likely be a horrendous experience for the first few years if ever released, you know how long projects spend on building coin and wallets and still not succeed? Beat solana and you’ll bring in retail, look at Phantom wallet, look at jupiter dex, this is the type of UX this project needs. You’re building native while the whole financial industry is building on sol.
, the native token is still on the project agenda, although it is not the highest priority at the moment:
finally came around. No more Ginsler / Warren dictators (these politicians are brought to you by your friends at BoA, WF etc lol)