I’m on my computer at home and I press Autonomy.exe and I become a node operator.
My computer’s energy consumption is increasing, my Internet is starting to burn more traffic, I have expenses.
The end of the month comes and my electricity bill is 1 euro higher, my internet bill is the same.
If you ask the Artificial Intelligence, it will tell you that I have expenses. If you ask me, I will tell you that I clicked 1 .exe and got free crypto.
Who is right? Logically the AI, but my gut tells me I’m right and I’m willing to bet that more people will feel the way I do than the AI.
And so you know I’m right, here’s a real conversation between two node operators about the cost of electricity a.k.a. “Ongoing Costs for Node Operators” for 1 laptop with 40 nodes
Please read the answers from Chatgpt fully, I would like thoughts on those concerns and solutions presented, that is what I am looking for. Or just read it to understand the concerns, problems and possible solutions.
It is not only the answers that is of importance but the questions and thoughts those concerns brings, it would be good if more people thought about it and considered the different angles.
Except you have presented chatgpt with wrong data.
A node that is more full than others, will offload to a lesser full node, after which it will start earning again.
worth to check the QuotingMetrics across the client log to confirm the high quotes were really valid.
Just scanned your numbers in a rush, so correct me if I got anything wrong:
1, seems the cost of royalties not covered in your calculation ?
2, for those failed payments, the amount will be taken from wallet as well, even though the chunk upload failed.
Failing of a payment could just because of a glith of network and may restored later on.
So, yes, you may see the wallet got charged, even when there is un-successful upload.
My client hasn’t got logs unfortunately, only the output to terminal. I may implement at some point. Sorry!
I’m not sure but the difference is much larger than 15% so I’m not concerned about that. The terminal output isn’t clear about whether the cost is net or gross. If the cost is the sum (ie net) then it only inflates the deduction by 15%.
That’s interesting. I’m not seeing that the upload fails, if that’s what you mean. The report seems (certainly in the first instance) to be saying that there isn’t the budget to pay for any of the remaining chunks.
In the second case it isn’t clear. So I take it that could be explained by what you say - chunks were paid for but the upload failed. My script repeats the upload until it succeeds, so I let it have a few more attempts and they failed (without the upload summary output). I’ll try again now in case it’s connectivity and see if any chunks get uploaded.
The dang thing failed again, still without an upload summary but still seems to have taken nanos from my wallet. After the previous attempts I had 980 but the following error correctly reports it has dropped further to 513!
I can’t make sense of the terminal output and the impact on the wallet, or whether the issue is to do with chunk not being uploaded. I’ve not noticed any error to that effect but maybe it isn’t reported.
Splitting and uploading "/home/mrh/src/safe-browser/aweb-sites/testnet-sites/autonomi-demo/v1-autonomi-demo" into 13 chunks
Failed to store website content. Not enough balance in wallet to pay for chunk. We have NanoTokens(513) but need NanoTokens(2319) to pay for the chunk
The other point to notice about that is it wants >2000 nanos for one chunk. This doesn’t really make sense unless the data is clustered around a small section of the network. We have 40,000+ nodes and from what I can see most are charging 10 to 100 nanos / chunk, so that remains a question. My own nodes are mostly charging 10, with one outlier asking 64.
Someone has to store data being moved without getting compensated, that is the most important part.
As the network get larger and older, more and more old data will be moved and distributed to others, how will that affect things?
As the network grows and gets older then there will be a higher and higher amount of older data being moved around that someone will have to store for free, as it was already payed for some time earlier in history.
Then the newer nodes will get a smaller and smaller % of new data to store and get compensated for, as a higher % of their provided space gets allocated by older data, which they have to store for free.
Gotem. Using safe files upload the failure is the same:
$ safe files upload -p /home/mrh/src/safe-browser/aweb-sites/testnet-sites/autonomi-demo/v1-autonomi-demo/
Logging to directory: "/home/mrh/.local/share/safe/client/logs/log_2024-06-16_18-35-56"
safe client built with git version: 09d4de5 / stable-RealDeal12thJune / 09d4de5 / 2024-06-13
Instantiating a SAFE client...
Connecting to the network with 50 peers
🔗 Connected to the Network "/home/mrh/src/safe-browser/aweb-sites/testnet-sites/autonomi-demo/v1-autonomi-demo/" will be made public and linkable
Splitting and uploading "/home/mrh/src/safe-browser/aweb-sites/testnet-sites/autonomi-demo/v1-autonomi-demo/" into 13 chunks
⠐ [00:00:16] [----------------------------------------] 0/13 Completed with Err(
0: Not enough balance in wallet to pay for chunk. We have NanoTokens(513) but need NanoTokens(1986) to pay for the chunk
Logs. I don’t have time to look myself right now but will be interested!
Are you on Mac ? I ran 10 nodes since the start of beta on my mac and I didn’t get any nanos yet as well. I also have a tiny doubt on the impact of automatic user session locking, but I think it’s still operating without interruption yeah.
Network activity history seems stable during session lock.
I think I didn’t get nanos yet because of the massive amount of errors I can see with vdash, around 100 errors for each put or get (nodes started with --home-network)
I don’t think it’s the same, someone might correct me but when a computer is asleep there’s no activity at all, it’s just in a state ready to be “woken” anytime, while on mobile CPU is always operating. You can still receive calls or push notifications, it’s always on the lookout. What I’m afraid of is that mobile apps that were previously open but not killed seem automatically “frozen” in the open apps manager until you wake them up individually. At least on iOS. Not sure we can control that at the app level.
I’m a mobile app dev so I’ll dive deeper soon just out of curiosity
Same! I first was running several nodes on two MacBooks for days, since beta, using Launchpad, all running fine. Zero nanos
Now, after being frustrated, did a full reset and I am now port forwarding and using safenode-manager on one of the MacBooks. Still no nanos to report.
Something fishy is happening with Mac’s and I’m trying to bring it to attention without sounding like a know it all or a dick. I’m glad to be contributing to the network, even for free but when you’re promised nanos and it’s not as advertised, it needs fixing.
I saw someone on discord with a similar number of nodes running that had reset multiple times but was running Launchpad on windows and he had tens of nanos from each session, some that seemed to be quite short.
This is really bit misleading. Though it says for the chunk, but actually it means chunk batch, which is 13 chunks in total for your case.
I checked the log, it shows one chunk quoted at 420, one at 255, two at 230, one each at 150, 143, 130, 86, then all the left at 10.
The QuotingMetrics all seems reasonable for each quote.
Have to admit that though 10 vs 420 looks like a huge diff, but it only means couple of records diff or received payments diff.
