We have a coded solution that we have been testing, it has great results. Qi did that code. Tests look good, but I am hesitant it may create traffic and there is another event driven way that may prove much better. I think there may be a hot fix to test this one though and perhaps later make it more event driven.
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What are the chances that the network estimate is waaay off?
Could we have ghost nodes.
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It didn’t look like a lynch mob to me, but more folks trying to make a connection with @Shu to ensure he has understood their perspective.
Fwiw, it is likely people wanted to address the points to him directly because @Shu is well respected.
Certainly, if I have said anything out of line, I apologise. I think folks just don’t want to see the network suffering unnecessarily. Don’t we all want it to succeed? I only see concern, not malice towards individuals here.
@Shu I love reading your points here and in discord. I hope this thread hasn’t put you off.
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Ghost nodes?
I have never seen Formicaio give me a total network size of >8m nodes
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No reasons so far to think they are wrong, but I have to admit I have not dug into that, but that team are comfortable the numbers are correct.
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Yeah, piecing bits together here and there, routing tables not being refreshed?
Idk its above my pay grade for sure.
Ps. @Shu I second @Traktion view we all love you man nobody is jumping on you.
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Agreed, yet blaming the community continues rather than looking at either what people are saying or why.
David is mystified, but blames it on avarice despite what we are saying. No consideration of the role Autonomi have played in getting here.
He has been absent, so hasn’t seen how the community have been ignored and sidelined for a year, mislead, disrespected and now blamed - by him - while we demonstrably remain committed to helping the network reach the goals that brought us here.
It is indeed a sad situation. Until Autonomi begin to own their part in this, it can’t improve.
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I tink repeating the same message over and over again and in caps and in every thread in every forum we have really gets tiring. We do have barbed comments from folk who seem to lie in wait for negativity and then pounce on.
If you read posts and imagine you are a team member, listening to how Autonomi are evil, devils thieves and just moronic and then sprinkled deep in conversations there may be something worthwhile, it’s pretty exhausting.
Sadly I think this might be true, but so many want it only to work according to their rules and it’s repeated continually. Many many people here on this forum are super helpful and brilliant and they all know who they are. There are others who have turned into screaming banshees or passive aggressive and these folks are killing this community and forum.
I get folk want emissions stopped, slowed or whales tracked down and hung from a lamppost, just in case they are bad and all of the other assumptions that get made. I do get that, but every single thread on every forum is now the same thing.
My only saving grace is seeing the devs in house calmly and deeply discussing the issues to fix them. However they do have to do that blind if these forums are just noise noise and more noise with the odd, you autonomi folks are a bunch of imbilsilic morons that have no clue.
So I urge folk to read some of these threads and imagine they are a dev who is racking their brain to find bugs and dive deep into the algorithms and analyse possible issues and then for a break come here to see any feedback. It’s not pleasant at all and especially not so if they try to pose opinion.
I just cannot stand to see good people do this to other good people.
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Sorry David I have to disagree with your perception of the forum members here. This place was the best for reading deep discussions between team members and forum members in the past, it was always open and people often disagreed with each other as they should, the discussion never stopped and if someone was getting out of hand it was usually forum members reigning them in. Feels like the community has been somewhat left behind in all that is going on. This has been acknowledged a couple of times by bux herself but nothing has changed. If the team feels they can’t interact with the forum I agree the project is dead because without each other we wouldn’t be here today 18 years on.
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The few issues are
- Dead nodes
- RT refresh
- Close group being accurate every single time
They all relate slightly but can also cause issues if the fix is deterministic and periodic as opposed to event driven. So it’s a deep one to consider fully. Many nights require the pillow to help for sure 
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Believe me, it’s not my perception alone. Many in the team find this place very hostile and the marketing folk feel the pain when they try to encourage new users on discourse. The feedback there is not good at all. We, as a community put people off and I hope none of us want to be happy about that. Bux is there, many of the team are there often, but for some that won’t be good enough as they demand we only use some website they approve of and so on. But folk will find many in the team on discourse and some here, but less so these days I fear.
I just think we are all missing the opportunity and we have folk in Autonomi feeling attacked and then community members feeling ignored.
So I have tried to get folks in the team to get into the forum, I have tried to engage as much as I can, I know I am not on line as much as I was, but that will recover soon I hope.
So somethings wrong and pointing at the other side is not working. I cannot accept the community feel ignored right now. I know they are not because I am here and I do try to engage. So then it swings to the management team, they will be the issue, they don’t communicate and on it goes.
Until it all stops then it’s gonna be hostile and it’s gonna get worse.
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I think the problem is the assumption that people here are going on about emissions because they want to earn more in a network with fewer nodes or that it’s unfair that large node runners are scooping up lots of ANTs for little benefit provided. There’s a bit of that to be sure. But most seem to share my concerns that it is not good for the network and not good for getting more people running nodes from home. And that was supposed to be the point. 10 million people running 5 nodes would be much better than 500 people running 100,000.
But yes, we should probably just keep quiet about it because we’ve said our piece and we’ve been told it’s not going to be changed. We just have to watch it all play out and hope for the best. I just hope Autonomi have gamed out all the possibilities or know something we don’t and will do something quickly if it doesn’t work out.
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Thank you David. Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate the comments!
I didn’t want to dive deeply in the right or wrong about the current emissions strategy. As long as all antnodes are held to the same rules and its equal participation by all antnode operators on a per antnode basis (simplified), its good enough for me at the moment (regarding the rules of how emissions are distributed). Granted, that assumes the network is behaving perfectly, which is a work-in-progress.
I was mainly just stating my personal opinion regarding whales vs one’s own earnings, and even earnings coming from say emissions themselves as is. To me, from the sideline, I see enough comments on discord and forum about not earning any ANTs or not earning enough ANTs. That’s not to say that problem doesn’t exist on a mis-configured antnode, but at same time, sometimes at times, folks have unrealistic expectations about potential earnings per day (actual vs expected) given what they contributed to the network vs say what a bigger whale operator may have contributed and earned.
Many members of the team and myself are focused on getting an even healthier network working as well as it can be (emissions aside). As stated earlier, I am not too particularly bothered by the emission strategy at the moment, some may find it less optimal and some may find it more, and some may find it perfect. To be honest, I haven’t caught up on this particular topic on the forum or discord specifically around emissions (seems massive). There are just much bigger areas to focus on at the moment, and emissions isn’t my specific area of focus.
However, this emissions topic seems genuinely quite active and heated (from initial reads on multiple posts and in discord). This is not an area I want really dive into and discuss. I rather focus on the technical issues facing the network or the underlying infrastructure, monitoring, deployment, or any improvement of internal processes that accelerate a more stable release build to the community.
On other news, it was quite a great dev update, as the team is working around the clock on multiple fronts on getting this network in a much healthier state. The gears in the giant machinery, small and large.. are definitely rotating… 
.
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I hope in all my ranting I have not conveyed that impression. And if anybody feels I have done so then they have my immediate and unreserved apology.
I would hope we can all continue to express our opinions here, robustly if need be, but still respect every member of the team.
Truly shocked to hear that @shu thinks he was getting picked on. He isn’t - certainly not by me.
I am concerned firstly and lastly about the health of the network.
As ever @happybeing puts it well.
Everything else follows from that, apps that can be developed on a live network and dont need to be in a Sepolia incubator and healthy chunk earnings for all. Of course the larger players will garner more rewards, how could it be otherwise but right now its a VERY artificial environment we find ourselves in re emissions, notwithstanding the upload problems.
Maybe I am entirely wrong , its happened before, but I see emissions as a knob that is easily turned either up or down. The network is not even a toddler yet and requires love and nurturing. Throwing it out into a greed-driven marketplace is a dangerous thing to do.
It would be instructive to get a summary since TGE for the totals paid out in emissions and the totals paid out in actual chunk rewards. Im guessing that the ratio will be well in excess of 100:1. Where it should more like to 1:100 in a mature network functioning the way we always imagined it.
I’ll (maybe ) reserve further comment until that info is available but would throw out one more “knee-jerk” reaction.
Change the LaunchPad requirement from 35Gb to 5GB for now and give the wee guys some hope of seeing the improved payouts. Its NOT about the money for me or for most here, I feel that giving the silent majority of home node-runners just some reward every couple of days will hopefully retain them.
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Indeed and perhaps an apology is due from me for not making that point MUCH clearer up at the top of the thread. We all concentrate far too much on the negatives.
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Yes.
And just because he happened to be the only one from the team here, he probably got a bit of anger, that’s actually directed towards the decision to not change anything in emissions.
If the folks responsible for that decision would raise their heads, then maybe others could have a bit more peaceful time. But now it easily seems like the technical team would be responsible too. Though I must say I understand very well if they’re not willing to do that.
Just imagine reading in the update, that “On the emissions front, Bob and Alice have decided to not change a thing”. On the other hand, now it seems that no one in particular is responsible for that, which means anyone on the team gets the blame.
But whenever a dev has been talking technical dev things here, I think they have been treated well. Maybe not always, but in general.
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Critical? Definitely. Hostile? I don’t see it. I guess it’s impossible to see it from both sides. Maybe the damage is done (both sides), I hope not 
I think that’s what people are missing. Rather than just “it’s in the white paper”. I’ve heard many valid reasons why emissions should be stopped but nothing why they shouldn’t while the network is not functioning.
Are those comments from the same
worried about the functionality of the network?
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Can’t wait for any of them to be released and to get a network where I can test them 
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Well, I think that be a question to other folks on the team, however, without any emissions and uploads not working well at the moment, we won’t have such a large network size as the operators on the cloud won’t put up with the continuous instance costs at such scale (assuming a decent amount are on the cloud to begin with). We also wouldn’t have faced other challenging issues, which were discovered at scale. i.e Certain assumptions about the network were proven right and others were proven wrong as well at this scale to our surprise.
I don’t recall at the moment. I have been too absorbed with uploader and downloader services (multiple flavors) and monitoring solutions for them internally, which get us more visibility with the help from other members off the team. These services would be auto deployed for dev, staging, and production once the PRs are done, and give the team a more consistent real-time view off some of the data that lives on any given target testnet including production (i.e. random and non random sampling via downloads off previously uploaded data etc (time series)), and tracking a slew of overall metrics associated with uploader and downloader activities.
In addition, team is working on integrating the full suite of different simulated node types on DO (every increasing coverage and simulation for what an environment may be like for an end home user behind a router, granted we are not limiting or throttling bandwidth here (not yet at least ):
- full cone nat node
- port restricted cone nat node
- random symmetric nat node
- upnp node
- public node (no nat)
Some of the environments above have already been implemented, while for the rest of them, the research phase aka POC is already complete, and just requires the final end to end integration in the orchestration process of the infrastructure pipeline (mostly to be implemented by Chris and Roland).
There is also on-going work on migrating away from ELK7 to ELK8 as well (recently started).
As you can see, this is just from one team member’s perspective, and there is a ton of other action items being looked at by everyone else simultaneously. 
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You are getting to the heart of the matter here. I really don’t want to repeat myself yet again but WTF can’t we change emission rates that would appear to do more harm than good?
And this was why I had hoped we would have a proper (official) ticketing system where each “complaint” was logged and its root cause assigned.
The negative comments about not earning - is this due to a misconfiguration of nodes or just someone moaning that their tickets do not come up in the lottery as often as they would like?
Is this tech or just moaning?
And BTW a proper ticketing system - which I was assured was going to happen - would have simplified and codified the troubleshooting process for LaunchPad, antctl and likely Formicaio and anm as well - possibly even to the extent that in many cases just filling out the ticket form would have revealed the solution before human eyes needed to look at it.
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