100x those earnings would not even pay my bus fare to the pub, let alone start to assuage @aatonomicc’s thirst.
I am NOT complaining about the size of the earnings , its the proportion of emissions v chunk payments.
Yet @dirvine said just yesterday
in response to my joy at finally receiving a non-emission payout.
I want to believe @dirvine. I’m pretty sure @dirvine wants this to happen soon - so why are “management” seemingly so determined to drive out the small user? And still do everything to reward these mythical whales?
I don’t think whales are a problem in general. It is more the fact that they are being paid so much to do so little. Same for anyone running a node right now, tbh. I say that as someone benefitting too (albeit with 2-3k nodes only).
Any node runner who is running a lot of nodes is surely not allocating 35gb of storage to each. That would be madness when there is so little data uploaded. Game theory dictates that.
This squeezes the little guy playing by the 35gb rules and it isn’t helping the network either.
The recent changes to encourage latest node versions is great though. It prevents selfish node runners from preventing code progress. However, I worry that emissions invert the economics that the upload fee/reward was trying to keep in balance.
Ofc, as more data is uploaded, the node runners will have to provide sufficient storage. That is great for the long term. I’m just not sure emissions are helping in the short term and have arguably done harm.
We certainly are and despite being told that we don’t matter,
I myself , @aatonnomicc and hopefully others will pay good money to rent dedicated boxes to ensure this devnet is as large and robust as possible.
Possibly that statement above could have been worded better?
Devnet will hopefuly be a success. Whether the fruits of that will have anything to run is entirely a different matter. If most of us lose interest in the WhaleNet, it too will wither away once our financial brains finally grasp they are pissing money away for zero return other than some nice claims on a Powerpoint.
Oh and @dirvine gets to see what happens when a network is dying off - which will be educational but not really what we want to learn right now. It will be instructive when someone else picks up the pieces of what is setting itself up to be a pig-headed mega fail and tries again, hard lessons having been learned.
The network is handling 50 million nodes, and we’re seeing data like the number of hops being more uniform than expected. The team clearly says there are reasons behind this. So why is the community saying it’s meaningless?
There you go again. The main concern I have and which I see being raised isn’t about fairness thought that does get mentioned alongside. The point is whether the emissions are distorting the network in ways that hinder it’s development and use.
I’ve not been making these arguments, but just as an example one concern has been that whales might creating and sustaining a network of useless nodes. Such a large network can’t fill up and is not supporting uploads or any useful network functionality. While this would, if true, be ‘unfair’, the complaint is that such a situation would be counter productive for solving problems with network design and functionality, inhibiting development of apps and preventing partners and other users from uploading.
That’s why some have been arguing for reductions in emissions - not to make it fairer though that would of course be welcomed here - but to help fix issues and make it useful more quickly.
Because IIUC all it is doing is proving
Cai, Xing Shi; Devroye, Luc (2015). “The Analysis of Kademlia for Random IDs”. Internet Mathematics. 11 (6): 1–16. arXiv:1402.1191. doi:10.1080/15427951.2015.1051674. ISSN 1542-7951. S2CID 16547375. from Kademlia - Wikipedia is in fact correct.
Its not doing anything else other than making for outlandish unsustainable marketing claims, sadly. Its certainly not doing anything for actually using the network which is why this DevNet had to be invented cos WhaleNet is unusable for anything resembling dev work.
My initial post was just a personal opinion about a certain view point off whales and earnings, but folks are tearing it apart… as if I responded to any of of individual’s folks comments or quoted their statements… (I did not initially). It was simply a personal opinion.
Folks are reading too much into this.
I will refrain from commenting further, especially on certain specific posts here. Cheers.
This endless discussion on emissions is super annoying.
Everyone is playing by the same rules right now. This is fair.
There will always be people who earn more, and have more, sorry, but this is reality.
Uploads will balance things out in the long run. Maybe smaller node runners wont play the role we all hoped for, maybe they will, who knows where Autonomi is headed? I’m doing fine with 800 nodes from home. Rig is larger and a bit more powerful than I used in the past, but it was dirt cheap, and cost little to run. So the theory of the network is still valid.
Emissions will continue for another 12 years. At the moment the team is not changing the rules. Nothing left to say here.
So ask not what Autonomi can do for you, but what can you do for Autonomi? Let’s make this network happen! Cheers
No please don’t. Your comments are always welcome, even if they are not what we want to hear right here, right now
In addition to DEMANDING emissions be cut to 1% of present values I DEMAND @shu sticks around and gives his opinion. Your brain is too big to be silenced.
Sorry @Michael_Hills this just isn’t good enough.
All questions of “fairness” aside, the brutal fact is the network at present is barely functioning due to lack of data. A fully tested fix for uploads is obviously not going to come in the immediate short term, Say in next 7-10 days. Meanwhile more and more of the small users, the very people so much effort was expended on attracting during the Waves of Q3 and 4 of last year are giving up. And likely to tell their pals that they are giving up.
Time is NOT on our side here. We will soon find we have gone below a critical mass of the very home users that the project was designed for in the first place.
It is NOT knee-jerk reaction to realise that serious mistakes have been made and need to be sorted very quickly - despite what it says in a White paper.
And as I have argued previously, who said what was in ANY White Paper is ever followed slavishly to the letter. Emissions are only a tool to get the token into as many hands as possible. When those hands are heading for the hills and losing interest in the project, does it matter that we have had to be somewhat flexible?
Sorry Michael, the time for meaningless pablum like this is long gone. Sitting back and doing nothing is NOT an option.
It’s really disappointing that uploads still don’t work, even after such a long time since launch. I know I know that this is not a small project. But didn’t we launch it? This is still an impossible network in my eyes until this is resolved. What I don’t like is the lack of confidence in the fixes that are being put up.
Sorry for my rude comment. Just venting out my frustration. I still believe in the team. But maybe will have to lower my expectations
No, they aren’t. Folk using Launchpad have to provide a full 35GB for nodes. More skilled people are using antctl and don’t have to. I’m certainly not! But I’m allocating about a good percentage of that and I can increase in a hurry if it starts to fill.
We suspect there are millions of nodes being provided with an absolutely minimal amount of storage and they will crash or cause a lot of disruption as they are re-provisioned. That won’t be good for the network. Same argument for network bandwidth use. We could have a cascading fail like we saw last year.
There is a fairness argument to all of this but most of us, most of the time, are coming at this from a health of the network perspective.
I can run nodes to help the network and get a proportionate reward for doing so. One of the points is that the newbies who are mainly running a small number of nodes can’t run as many as they could because they are hampered by Launchpad insisting on a full 35GB so they can’t run as many. And yet there is a threshold of about 100 nodes apparently for getting anything from emissions. That isn’t really fair but the main point is it limits the numbers of nodes that contribute to actual resilience.
To be fair, the whitepaper didn’t say that uploads would be largely broken and downloads will be slow and suffer from timeouts either!
With a working network, the whitepaper statement should probably be followed. Up until that point, surely network health/functionality trumps everything else?
Actually instead of the screeds of frustrated keyboard pounding I have been doing the last few hours I should just have been posting the above IN CAPITAL LETTERS every 5 mins
Thinking forum members are complaining because they want more ‘money’ is madness. I’d say everyone complaining about emissions are doing so because they want a healthy network. When the error was found emissions were changed pretty rapidly, it can be done again while the network isn’t functioning to help development. I get David’s point about not interfering but the network is not ready for that yet.
It’s difficult for team members to join in only to be torn apart and shouted at with the same thing over and over. It’s very hostile and every single topic is now all the same stuff.
I feel very sad we have lost the changing room here. Good feedback like @neo 's earlier post about close groups is golden for us but the guys won’t join these conversations to be torn apart.
We all want the network to operate properly and the team need to get feedback but this conversation is not feedback. It’s practically useless and damaging now.
It’s best the team stay offline and keep their heads down and fix this. The other option is just to give up. I prefer the former here, but we will see how it all goes.
I am kinda immune now, but I hate seeing folk suffering a pile on when they take time to help out. Shu has been a guy that’s online at mental times when I have had things to try and test, he’s super super helpful and considered in his approach to investigating these bugs, he is desperately trying to get them fixed.
He now has the guts kicked right out of him. He cannot even just go to discord as the same stuff will be repeated there continually and new folk just give up before they even start because that place now also looks hostile and far from friendly or appealing.
We are literally destroying the project from within and I have no idea why and I certainly don’t want to offer an opinion or portray hope we get the data payments running. Others now much better than we do and perhaps a fork will prove better, who knows?
