Update 13th March, 2025

[neo]

Congrats to the team for the improvements we’ve been seeing and thank you for telling us the process used for emissions, it clears up many doubts and concerns.

@maidsafe

but the issue has now been fixed and we are back to the one minute interval

Maybe double up on the VPS/dedicated machine and do 200 nodes quoted a minute. So called whales will see approx the same but small people (up to limit of LP, 50 nodes) will see something more often and encourage them more. My humble PC can do over 100 nodes quoted a minute from home with me simple script, surely that can be done from datacentre infrastructure machines. Be great to get to 1000 nodes quoted a minute for really good emissions spread across nodes compared to 100.

@maidsafe

REST would be a gateway (as it needs a server running it) so it would be something MaidSafe could develop and community deploy, or it could be that a separate commercial entity builds one.

Can’t you package a tiny server with the App. Embedded systems can do this with MB of EEPROM/FLASH and KB of RAM, why not have a tiny server for the user’s machine, as either a separate APP spun up by the application needing it, or embedded in the App.

[born2build]

@maidsafe

Impossible Futures

Are projects for the network, that aren’t hosted on the network, eligible? This early in the network and ecosystem, there’s plenty of that stuff to build and it’s what I’m currently working on.

[Michael_Hills]

Starting to see regular data upload payments now. Great!

[neo]

I have uploaded over 1000 files in the last 24 hours
That is between 4000 and 5000 records

[Michael_Hills]

@neo

4000 and 5000 records

Thanks for the records. I’ll take 5000 more please, lol

[neo]

Well those 4000 to 5000 records are spread across at least the 5 closest to each. And even more since nodes also collect records that are really close to them even though they may not be one of the closest 5

So there are at least 25000 extra records in the network due to those 1000 files

[DavidMc0]

Loving the progress being seen here. Impossible Futures, fixes for uploads, improved emissions distribution, and a load more great stuff.

Amazing work team Autonomi, and a great update.

@maidsafe

Lajos has been looking at the token demand and thinking about adjustments to the smart contracts and awards to incentivise app builders.

This sounds interesting. Is it possible to share more about the concepts being considered, or is it too early stage?

Probably wishful thinking, but if it’s some concept that aims to divert emissions toward more productive activity (supporting devs) than subsidising empty nodes, then bring it on

@Josh

why have we doubled the emmisions that the whitepaper says?

Interesting. Looking forward to answers on this.

@Josh

flooding the market with almost double the amount of emissions stated in the WP feels like a big fu to people who have supported this project for over a decade.

On the plus side, emissions now are far less than the original plans from 10 years+ ago (20% of supply vs 50/70% iirc). I don’t like emissions to nodes either, but they’ve always been part of the plan.

@Knosis

ERC20 is a huge bottleneck in the system

I like the idea of community support that would push forward Native Token development in parallel.

Though, the team have said they are thinking about it even if it’s not a top priority righ now.

@riddim

erc20 is annoying and quite expensive in comparison but not the element stopping us right now

I agree it’s not stopping the network, but ERC20 will be a huge economic bottleneck to the network filling as soon as uploads are fixed.

It’s a significant and unpredictable price floor on uploads that takes value from node operators (pays ETH / Arbitrum nodes/stakers instead), will slow down the filling of the network, and be an ongoing cost increase that reduces the competitiveness of Autonomi in the market. So, the sooner Native is ready the better in my mind.

On the other hand, the ERC20 fees will stop people flooding the network with worthless data for almost free until it starts filling up!

[Josh]

@DavidMc0

I don’t like emissions to nodes either, but they’ve always been part of the plan.

If the WP said 10 million per month that would be fine, what is upsetting is that a public document that we should all be able to rely on for information is seemingly pointless? Dbl what is advertised.

To entirely ignore what is stated in the WP without notification to the public that should trust what it says is no good.

We should do a lot better as a project.
What else in there is incorrect.

It feels like being lied to which is one of the very few things in life that gets me irate.

[born2build]

Yea it’s not exactly a technical white paper. Probably because it’s fairly pioneering work and still in flux. It’s more of an off-white paper hehe.

[jlpell]

@DavidMc0

I agree it’s not stopping the network, but ERC20 will be a huge economic bottleneck to the network filling as soon as uploads are fixed

If uploads are fixed then add native token…

[19eddyjohn75]

@Knosis

Bamboo Garden Fund fund the native token

Taproot Assets | Builder's Guide

Taproot Assets have bitcoin as underlying asset and atomic swap on Lightning Network, so that’s a good start.

@riddim

the erc20 is annoying and quite expensive in comparison but not the element stopping us right now

Even if txfees cost 1/10 of ANT your still wasting people their time/money and not to mention the learning curve. I’m too lazy to look it up, I’m not sure if it’s EIP 7721 that enable users to pay with the applications token in stead of ETH.

[Neerajkashyapp]

Dont understand but sound great… Keep goes on ant

[happybeing]

@riddim

the erc20 is annoying and quite expensive in comparison but not the element stopping us right now…

We don’t know if it is part of the reason for functionality issues, but I think it likely more than just network size. Before the switch uploads were more than adequate for app demos, the problems holding me back were with Registers.

For developers right now the cost or ERC20 isn’t an issue (unless you wanted to upload large amounts which few of us do). The issues are with the network not functioning. APIs are not quite done but pretty close as we can see, plenty of useful stuff can be done already in Python and Node is coming. Rust is there and with dweb and AntTP REST is starting to be an option too.

Who knows where we could be now if we had not switched to ERC20 and AFAIK no technical reasons have been given for that. None at all specifically, just the need to launch with the strong sense it was to get investors out of Autonomi’s hair.

@neo

Can’t you package a tiny server with the App. Embedded systems can do this with MB of EEPROM/FLASH and KB of RAM, why not have a tiny server for the user’s machine, as either a separate APP spun up by the application needing it, or embedded in the App.

This is what dweb does, and in a way that requires no configuration of Browser settings or anything else.

So we have this now, what we lack is the ability to publish to the network unless we’re Autonomi - the reasons for that difference is what Autonomi need to focus on IMO because they can’t fix what they are not seeing.

[riddim]

@happybeing

Before the switch uploads were more than adequate for app demos

Hmhmm - that’s actually true - I don’t think the issue in itself is the erc20 speed but possibly the chunk/payment bundling to save on fees and the timeout stuff to give the Blockchain time to do the tx… I see your point - it’s not just about the 15s tx time…

[Traktion]

@neo

Can’t you package a tiny server with the App. Embedded systems can do this with MB of EEPROM/FLASH and KB of RAM, why not have a tiny server for the user’s machine, as either a separate APP spun up by the application needing it, or embedded in the App.

The unix way is usually to build small apps that compliment one another, much like ant, antnode, antctl, etc.

Not sure why folks can’t just download other ant apps, including rest/web/proxy servers. Bundled or unbundled shouldn’t make a difference.

AntTP is already doing this, ofc, albeit with a focus on uploads/downloads initially. IMIM blog already sits on top as a web app too, and can now even stream videos within pages.

Imo, the team should be focussing on getting the network and libraries stable. The community can build out apps on top of the libs. Indeed, making time to steer the community builders would be helpful too.

Fwiw, I’m a little bemused by the comms around this. There were private discussions about a push for AntTP, but that has gone cold. Now there is this announcement and changes to the builder program, which adds months to the builder ramp up process.

So, I’m sort of feeling a bit puzzled and slightly dejected right now. Not great.

[happybeing]

Welcome! For now this is still the best project I can find to support, but it has lost so much shine that it hurts.

The good thing is that I love nothing better than building stuff, so I persevere here. However, being unable to share this work with folk for so long takes a lot of the pleasure away.

I’m really looking forward to that changing but it seems Autonomi think they are already there and every time, for myself, it still doesn’t work (even on VPS and using their app - so not my code, which is in any case based closely on their client).

Paul, keep doing what you enjoy. Who knows, maybe we’ll get there!

[Gill_McLaughlin]

Apologies @Traktion this is a breakdown of comms on my part on the early builders programme. Let me message you privately and pick up.

[Bux]

Hey Josh, just to say I have seen this re: emissions - a red flag and black mark for sure - a correction and explanation is sorely needed and will be incoming.

[TylerAbeoJordan]

Thanks for the update team. Is there any news on native token work? I recall someone was going to be working on that (from a week or two back in another update).

Good to see the impossible futures site - that looks like a nice promotion for the network - we need more though - we need to bring in influencers and I hope that is in the plan once we get the network humming along more smoothly.

As for rewards emissions, everyone here knows my position I suppose (that I don’t want them reduced - I want them gone entirely!), but won’t rehash it here. I do want to hear more about the emissions being 2x the planned. Guessing is has to do with the number of nodes being higher than expected? But just a guess.

Thanks to all the devs suffering under the load. There will be a light at the end of this tunnel and soon enough you will reach it!

Cheers

[Traktion]

@BambooGarden

Seems like a lot of overlap of impossible Futures and what the BGF was supposed to do. Whats the status of the BGF and what are the plans here going forward?

If you’re not on whatever board is managing that fund, perhaps you should be? A long term supporter and generous benefactor should surely only have the projects best interest at heart.