Update 02 May, 2024

Development Updates
21

Strictly speaking that is true but I am confident the extent of actual command line mastery necessary will be to type node-manager or something similar and after that, all interaction will be either choosing options with arrow keys or mouse or entering values by keyboard or scroll wheel.

So CLI but only by the skin of its teeth TUI (not a phrase I had met before) is a very fair description.

Hopefully there will be better contrast on the menus than on @aatonnomicc’s scripts - sorry @aatonnomicc, but anyway these were for learning from.

EDIT: Actually on reading your post again, @happybeing are you concerned with n00bs not being able to quickly/easily get to the terminal to issue the minimal CLI command?

2 Likes
22

The issue is that fewer people will run nodes if it’s a TUI. It’s no issue for us but seems like a mountain to others.

They are the majority and the people we’d like to involve as early as possible.

We were promised a GUI so I’m looking for clarification.

10 Likes
23

OK thats fair enough - Now we need to make actually getting to launch the TUI as non-intimidating as possible.

Maybe not even talk about it being a TUI?
We know know to avoid “crypto” “Web3” and “blockchain” - why not add “command-line” and talk/walk around it with desktop shortcuts that open a terminal in the appropriate directory ? - possibly with the command pre-loaded? All you have to do is press enter… ← Should be doable somehow - never needed to try it myself but…

4 Likes
24

You can’t get people to run a TUI without opening a terminal. There’s no way to hide this.

2 Likes
25

Not sure of what info you need. @JimCollinson gave info on the upcoming beta program.

Basically the progression was

  • “closed” beta. Not really closed as in sign up and beta test, but was closed in the sense it was closed to those who could not work the cli nature of the beta.
  • request went out to those happy to be part of the upcoming next stage of beta testing where statistics from your node will be recorded centrally
  • We are here in the progression
  • In June the next stage starts up where beta with GUI interface to run nodes and client.
    • this is where those who “signed up” with the form will run nodes with the telemetric module added where their stats (earnings, storage, etc is sent back to Maidsafe for analysis)
    • Others will run the nodes with or without the telemetric data being sent back at all - I am unsure if two versions will be released, but in any case if not “signed up” then there is no ID and/or data being kept.
  • From there a second group of 850 additional people can join this telemetric gathering phase and they are referred to as wave 2 participants along with the 175 wave 1 participants.
  • And if enough people then a wave 3 group of participants will be added
  • It would seem that “signing up” is needed to maintain a way to audit the tokens that will be distributed by the foundation from the tokens they receive at genesis. Without that audit trail the accountants/auditors that will be auditing the foundation’s books will be pissed in the extreme and call foul.

Oh and I might add that the ID needed is your discord ID and email. No KYC needed since just a rewarding program. But they do need a way to contact the people and separate one from another

2 Likes
26

You sure about that ?:slight_smile:

I will now distract myself by trying to get this to work properly…

2 Likes
27

Yes, I have made shortcuts that open the terminal, run the commands (via script) and either close the terminal window or leave it open after the commands finish.

2 Likes
28

Suppose this works for someone who’s current skills are no more than choosing install on a list of available apps. You need to convince me of that BTW, but by all means.

Now they are faced with a terminal window running a TUI. This is not a GUI, and it matters.

So I’m asking @maidsafe for clarification.

3 Likes
29

Many of us have done this but it misses the point.

2 Likes
30

Lets hear what they have to say before we waste more time on this .

I don’t see a download that installs a Desktop shortcut, (Win, Mac or linux) and kicks you into a menu system that is navigable by mouse and arrow keys rather than a full on GUI app as being a deal breaker.
What matters is getting this out into proper testing ASAP and if anybody asked me, I wouldnt vote for waiting a few weeks to get a proper GUI together…

7 Likes
31

Does anyone know if a Chromebook will be able to run a node?

My 2011 iMac gave up on me last week and need to save for a new one.

2 Likes
32

Thanks so much to the entire Autonomi team for all of your hard work! :horse_racing:

And also to the testers and moderators! :horse_racing:

8otggv

1 Like
33

It is a TUI. A GUI will follow as an option for those NOT running headless, which many folk will.

I am pretty much not in favour of a GUI on the node at all. Sure a separate GUI app to handle wallets etc. but the node should be click and run with no config. Then if folk want advanced they can go TUI/CLI.

In any case we are on quick iterative release here. All the promises perceived will happen as folk feed back it’s the most pressing thing they want. I hope we get great feedback from lots of people. Right now we an are a small group who imagine what is a must have. That is dangerous.

So getting to a place where we can run out and expand AND get feedback that is focussed on (so larger team or the current team has bandwidth to cope with demands) will be really a great place.

The balance of stability verses features is not simple, but I fall on stability first and the team are getting there for sure.

So TUI is a great start, works on SSH sessions etc. does not need X11 and pals installed on the machine. GUI later for users on desktops/laptops with window managers, then the mobile devices will want that. It’s gonna be a ton of work and doing this work means the team are not working on apps. Then we get clobbered for no browser/wallet and other must have or die bits of work.

We will get there, we really will, but the team are small and focussed right now. That may also change as we roll out and I can feel the seams creaking in terms of user demand far outstripping teams capability to keep up. As I said, we will get there, but we might need more help.

21 Likes
34

I don’t have one to test but I would imagine a Chromebook of any vintage will be just fine in terms of the hardware. I don’t know enough about ChromeOS to say if it would run the software without issues. Hopefully someone here does.

2 Likes
35

Sounds great!

2 Likes
36

It’s not really the look of the terminal, or even the need to use a keyboard shortcut to do something that is the friction in the experience…

It’s the need to have knowledge of the command line, knowing common commands, not getting feedback when you expect it etc.

We will need a GUI, a GUI is planned, a GUI is coming, but we can make big strides fast to onboard many many people via a TUI that will allow people to:

  • download a single executable
  • open the UI
  • start the node(s) running with a single keyboard short cut

And then we iterate from there.

What matters is results, not perfection.

(And I have to suppress my inner perfectionist to say that)

10 Likes
37

This is all true but it still matters. Not a deal breaker but it will inhibit some, so I wanted to clarify, especially when you kept implying it wasn’t an issue (“no command line chops required”) when people asked about this on Discord.

The community will help but some just won’t join in because it’s a command line app and that’s a shame, and not the way it has been presented.

I get that the team is small, the issue is presentation rather than capability, right up to yesterday so I’m glad this has been clarified. Thanks.

@dirvine every time someone new arrives we see how people feel the need to know if their node is running or not, connected or not, earning or not. This applies at least as much to the non-technical as the technical. It happens because they aren’t technical and aren’t sure what they’re doing.

Longer term I think people will still need that feedback in some form, and frankly so will the project. It won’t be much use if lots of people just click and forget, but have not done it right, or face some invisible issue, local, ISP or whatever.

So having the ability to just click on an executable and forget about is good. But I don’t think that should be the only way for the non-technical, and having some monitoring and a way to report issues in the wallet etc app, will be invaluable, for all, not just geeks.

Maybe that’s too ambitious for the timescales IDK, maybe a third party will step in. We’d all like the best approach we can manage and that’s what this feedback aims to help with. It’s not about perfection but clarity on the what and the why.

This could well be an opportunity for third party developers.

8 Likes
39

Very true.

Ideally the node would run in the background, but there would be a way to see what it is doing. And then of course there should also be a simple way to stop the node.

9 Likes
40

Remember a gui in node means it cannot run on small headless devices or remote machines unless we install a ton of potentially buggy and insecure code on them. I.e a gui comes with a significant cost and will harm those that want efficiency and lots of nodes running.

No free lunch

11 Likes
41

Mabye there could be 2 versions, 1 gui and 1 without? Some will run quite powerful machines so added things won’t cause a problem.

But it might be a good thing without GUI because it requires a certain level of knowledge to enter, maybe it could make the network better when people who start nodes knows about bandwidth, CGNAT, hardware and software and such, above average.

3 Likes