NVO Decentralized Exchange - Crowdsale

[dirvine]

@nemgun

I have already checked the github of safe, and I can say that there is nothing very exciting

Cheers Pal, you ability to speed read code is pretty amazing I think you should call it quits right here. I don’t know what would excite you though, seems “non wave” light would perhaps, or maybe just stick within the electromagnetic spectrum, oh wait … Perhaps “testing” a testnet before it’s published also makes you excited. You must know you do not even need a testnet to get your project going and confirming it works on SAFE.

Seriously I feel you have very little knowledge of SAFE and that’s worrying as you used SAFE as a driver for your crowdsale/ICO and that’s pretty alarming. I have no idea why you do seem to continue to make pretty abrasive and demeaning statements, I think it’s beyond a language issue.

Your description of safe and comparison to blockchain tech is very ill informed and could not really be more wrong, never mind your take on physics etc… I will mute this thread now and please do not DM me or any of the team as this is all way too distracting.

I do not call out this kind of thing (I kept very quiet about safex) as I wish everyone to have a chance, you seem to have taken that way to far now. You will now embarrass Alex for trying to help you out and he is on honeymoon right now. That’s a terrible shame and there was no need. All you had to do was work on the exchange as you agreed. If you had you would have some kind of testnet enabled demo’s no matter how small.

Good luck with your cash and new safe network,

I would vote for the removal of this thread and project as it is another safex indeed, same lack of knowledge and brash unfounded claims of technical ability and self proclaimed genius that will end poorly. What a shame, it’s sad but happens I suppose. I sincerely hope I am wrong here and the NVO team get to work and make it happen with demos of their promises and no talk of gaming, infrastructure and all that distracting stuff. I hope for the sake of all who invested that will be the case and I would love to be wrong in my fear here.

I still trust Alex and feel this all looks bad on him, he is not that kind of guy, but your team have damaged him here. I know he is well above all of this, but no need to stab him in the back when he is not looking @nemgun it’s not good business or good manners.

If you post the code @nemgun and have a secure autonomous anonymous decentralised network (storage and computations (i.e. mutable Data, CRDT types etc.)) with self authentication, self encryption, data chain type facilities, all the client code, back end and front end libraries for devs then I will apologise, But you should also tell ethereum as they look like 2 years to go with their plans to enter this space, using first POS and then sharding etc. So your superhuman if you can do more than the MaidSafe Engineers and all the Ethereum Engineers and all in a few weeks while you were supposed to be working on something else altogether. Perhaps let IPFS, StorJ SIA SOLID etc. know you have gone way beyond their current roadmaps as well.

[nemgun]

This is my personal though about it, i have to check the maidsafe repositories and see all of them.
I absolutely don’t care about Ethereum, i know it is a crap, i just took the good sides of Ethereum, they work on casper since years too.
considering the technolgical sides only (we don’t talk about prices) Ethereum have some great attributes, and that’s what i use, transaction speed, and EVM. I could have forked Blackcoin and implemented counterparty protocole.
I try to take the best of each and adding my ideas, fixing bugs, improving sides.

Patience is a virtue, let’s wait a couple of week, and then see by yourself. If it is beneficial to the project, use it, fork it, do what ever you want with it. If not, then let’s forget it. However, i will know how to to use it.

What i can’t understand is that in the beggining people was happy when i said that i will help the team, now that i am doing itn, people are unhappy.

Have i betrayed maidsafe ? no, i try to explain that i am doing something for everyone, but apparently Dirvine have to do it or else, it is just a crap. I think this is the problem, i haven’t insulted anyone, and i am really grateful to dirvine for the safenet idea, i just developed around it. It is like a contribution, it is had when people doesn’t understand that.

I would have asked dirvine for a contract, a recruitment, maybe you would have accepted this idea if it was the case, the problem is that people shouldn’t fear the unknown, have faith in yourself, why comparing me to safex ? you rush too much in quick conclusions.

I want to ask only one question to the ones who are criticising me, have anyone of you recruited devs for the team ? or brough devs to work on safenet ? check the amount of contributors, i am sure that 90% of the people who are crying and criticising me are here to get an added value from madesafecoin, the problem is that i try to contribute to the community, hopefuly i know that the community is large, and some larger minds understands that i just wanted to focus on the safenet development questions because i am here for that.

Let’s stop criticising for nothing, it is like safex have literally tortured your minds (mental rape ?), please stop acting like victims, there are psychologists for that if you have troubles to trust the external world.

[dirvine]

@nemgun

I want to ask only one question to the ones who are criticising me, have anyone of you recruited devs for the team ? or brough devs to work on safenet ?

The community have, you have not so please just stop, you are embarrassing yourself now. We employ & support many from the community (would love to do more) and will continue to, but they use the code and contribute, which you would know if you had looked at contributors in github or even read the dev updates we post weekly.

[Jabba]

@nemgun

there are psychologists for that if you have troubles to trust the external world.

Hey this is crypto, ‘trust’ is a dirty word here

Code is all that matters. Post what you’ve got when you’re ready and let the world judge the value of it. If it does what you say then I promise you a lot of us will instantly apologise and support you in every future endeavour.

You have to expect people to question the “incredible” though. Someone as bright as you should be able to appreciate that. The more incredible the greater the need to provide evidence with it.

Look forward to seeing what you post up, I’d imagine a few people will be keen to see what you’ve created and what all the fuss is about.

[BIGbtc]

@dirvine

I would vote for the removal of this thread and project as it is another safex indeed, s

No David, do not remove this. This was expected. This is a testamonial to incompetence and proof that the early warnings were ignored.
Alex is in the “unfortunate” position of being a benefactor of that $7 million and a spokesman/ publicist for the NVO project.

This can be salvaged if you can convince them to fund the real MaidSafe team. Nothing wrong with turning a sows ear into a silk purse my friend.

[Al_Kafir]

@nemgun

I asked myself a question, how to replace the use of light in the transmission of data (fiber optics)? I found that the waves can do it well, I would explain his details later,

Lol…can’t wait. Seriously though…wtf?

[anon78865233]

I’m glad I did not invest in NVO. This nemgun chap is a complete embarrassment!

[nemgun]

I never wanted to insult you, and i never wanted to stab Alex, he is a member of the team and i appreciate him a lot, he is like a brother for me.

However, i am talking about Safenet because it had been imposed to me by the team as Yani Ton and alex are Safenet lovers, we never used Safenet as a driver because is still doesn’t exist, and i fought with a lot of people who said “Why do you use safenet while it still doesn’t exist ?” i even did it on videos.

In my country, we have a deep respect towards elders (like you @dirvine), i don’t know Safex, so i can’t compare myself to them, you still don’t know what i can do in term of development, you can accept my opinion or not, it depends of you, this is what we call open opinion exchange.

I know that i came with an excellent idea for the community as i though i was part of the safenet community, but apparently not, it is not a problem.

I also agree with you if you want to vote for the deletion of the thread, it is your forum, you have all the rights and i respect that. However, i will try to help at a distance, also, i am not limited to do one thing a day, i am still young and have the right energy to do it, i have an excellent team.

What ever, in the next few months, you will see that i haven’t betrayed or stabed the NVO investors, or the SAFEnet community. I don’t need apologies and if you ever use what i will offer you, i would be happy because it would be for the sake everyone. If your technology is ready on time, i would be more then hapy to use it too, it would be even better and that’s what i want to achieve.

I think this is where our linguistic paths separate, i want you to know that if you ever need something do not hesitate to ask me, because, what ever happens, safenet is the core of NVO.

It is not because I have been insulted that I will change core, ideas are made to live while mens die, this is why i support ideas rather than words.

PS: I never talked about testnet, people asked me if i used it, i gave my opinion on it, i don’t like plying with words as i am not an english native, would have been different in french and arabic. I used to work with google translate, Ton and Alex can confirm that i learned english during the crowdsale month, reading english to develop and talking english or using expressions are totally different.

[BIGbtc]

There’s an old saying in business. “It’s not a problem if money can fix it, it’s an expense.”

You my friend, have a problem. Technically, you are out of your league with this NVO project and do not have the capacity to achieve anything near what you promised.

But you have excelled in an area few have. Fundraising. Your talents are not in developing decentralized exchanges, your talents lay in building trust with people and convincing them to invest in your ideas.

So now you are successful. You have exceeded even your own expectations, you know have a reputation for being a master.

If you, and Alex and Tonbi don’t make an effort to build on the awesome monetary success you have, yours and their reputations will be ruined.

You are on a path of destruction here. This may be your plan. Take the money and run. Make it appear that MaidSafe would not cooperate with you, so your justified in abandoning the project.

Here’s a idea.

Have Alex reach out to MaidSafe and broker a deal whereby NVO provides funding to some development of MaidSafe and to some community members here who have real potential and skills but no financial incentives. There are a number of ways this could be structured where everyone’s a winner and your legacy remains intact.

I said it before, I give you full marks for pulling this off. You have an opportunity to do a lot of good things.

Alex needs to play a role in keeping this project on the rails as do any people in Canada that were behind this.

Money can fix this problem you have. Use it.

GL

[polpolrene]

@nemgun

I tested the EVM and concluded that it is very interesting and stable, after that i though about using a smart contract for maid, who could communicate with the servers on the network, and send the frontends of websites on the network, let the smart contract manage the database, no way to hack the smart contract and the database because of the private key usage, at the same time it is not easy to find who is who on the network.

Ok, let’s talk some tech here. The idea was to create a secure coin_exchange where people could transfer coins without risk using the SAFE Network right? Sort of combination from servers to serve users on the safe://websites correct?

So how does Ethereum come in here? You want to make a server that conncects to SAFE while running a local/private blockchain from an Ethereum fork? Or a different way?

[nemgun]

I understand yuor opinion, the thing is that i don’t work for money, what ever i am doing for NVO is done for free with love and passion, i am even puting my own funds there, you can ask the team. Let’s not talk about money because it is not my motivation into this project.

Maybe for you I am only good to speak, anyway, from the point of view of the team everyone understands that I play a good role in the development.
My only mistake is to have been so happy to have found a solution for safenet that I rushed to share it, I might have had to ask Ton to go to meet Dirvine first , Because apparently, all my intentions are wrongly interpreted.
Fortunately I am not just a developer or a beginner, because you would have destroyed my moral. I do not work by feelings, hopefuly I work with my brain.
I do not think I have destroyed the reputation of anybody whatsoever with my opinions, the results that I will provide soon will surely be very interesting, I wonder how people will express themselves with me, remorse, regret, Because apparently that’s what everyone does, talk with their feelings fear, jealousy, lack of confidence. That’s not what I’m interested in.
I do not see NVO as a business, I see it more as a pleasure, I succeed in my life and somewhere I want to take pleasure in doing the things I love, that’s all.
I’m only 26 years old, and I have all the time before me to think about bigger buisness. Let me tell you something, according to the Algerian laws, I do not have the right to transfer funds abroad, or even to receive them, apart from an economic activity, and only if Is made on the basis of a law 51-49%

What I mean is that I do it for pleasure and not to monetize.

As for MaidSafe’s needs, I asked dirvine to send me the project’s requirements, how I could help, and I asked to make a Skype call because it’s not practical to use the forum. I asked for more information on the development to try to structure the support for maidsafe in order to avoid missleadings. He told me not to have time to do it, that he has many requests on skype and that he would rather avoid repeating the same story continuously.
I also made a call to the developers, they could have contacted me and I said I was open to any proposal from the beginning, except that I did not receive any that led me to take the lead And began to work alone.
Whatever the issue I need Safenet in order to launch NVO. It is a promise i want to stick to.

I asked for an agreement, an appointment, when someone tells you that you want to bring financial support, logistics, development, the least thing is to answer the call, especially that we have to work With the core, so it would be nice to have news, know where and how we can help.

It would have been easy to release funds for this without problems as it is a promise made to all investors in the community.

We stretched out our hand, and even did more, look for a technology for maidsafe, in the final, we get insult, couldn’t imagine that. We made several attempts.
We are ready for anything, it is just that we haven’t received anything.

And today I am told that I misunderstood MaidSafe, then explain to me what are my shortcomings so that I can repair and move forward. On this point I do not think I have shown a lack of professionalism, but I think it is the opposite today because I hold my hand to help, the answer is, I do not have time, check Viv.

If you can not understand this, I think you have a serious problem. We were devoted to maidsafe, I do not understand where is my mistake, so if you could please, enlighten me you who seem to be so enlightened.

[nemgun]

This is the kind of thoughts i would like maidsafe to have when i will release the repo.

let me explain anyway, i want to go through safenet, i want to to store private keys in a container for offline trading, and leave everything into safenet, saved in a sidechain, however, what i did was forking ethereum and added a pos protocol which rewards all the connected nodes with the transaction fees, And a second protocol that triggers every 20 minutes to reward people who share their servers on the network, in this case we can use smart contracts, make a token for maid, which will be used to connect to the network and share The website or the application on the whole network, at the same time the database will have to be interfaced with the smart contract, nobody will know who is the owner of the site, unless he wants it, and the database will be More secure because it will not be detectable, in the final, only the front ends will be attackable, except that they will be replicated in the network. So there will always be a node with the right information, the APIs can communicate without problem.

This is what I can offer for the time being to the community while waiting to go further in the experiments of the network in the next months. Remember that I have just started, and that I can go farther in the coming months, its only a week after all.

[dirvine]

@nemgun

As for MaidSafe’s needs, I asked dirvine to send me the project’s requirements, how I could help, and I asked to make a Skype call because it’s not practical to use the forum. I asked for more information on the development to try to structure the support for maidsafe in order to avoid missleadings. He told me not to have time to do it, that he has many requests on skype and that he would rather avoid repeating the same story continuously.

OK here is what you “asked” in black and white.

"Hello Irvine, i would like to know if you have a moment for a skype call, in order to elaborate an action plan. Radix are busy, i don’t really know why and i don’t like supplicating for developers.

So, please, ping me when you can."

To which I pressed the like button, then you said

"Please don’t like, reponse, i am sure you have a beer or two i know we are sunday, but how about scheduling a meeting ?
You know i appreciate you a lot, even if you have a beer, it is even better with a beer "

To which I replied

"No beer, we work 19-20 hours every day, even Sunday’s so in middle of design of data chains part 2 now. Can you detail your ideas in the chat and even better include @viv we don’t do DM much as it means we need to repeat stories to others.

I also get about 6-8 queries daily for skype etc. so it’s never ending and harms launch a lot. So if you detail your plans with Viv included we can look at them when we get a chance.
"

Your interpretation and recollection leave a lot to be desired. You should know who @viv is as well, he only runs the show as far as development goes, plus a lot more. If you wish to help it would be appreciated by all, but you don’t know the network, you don’t know the code, you don’t seem to read updates and you don’t know the team. (this will explain some of your shortcomings when criticising any of this project, code or team)

So how are you going to help ? We would love help, but what kind of help can you offer, do you even know the skills we need or the skills we have as a team (no geniuses here, just hard working folk who know what they are talking about when they do speak). So help if you can but don’t blurt out random statements, give us an indication of what we need and how you can provide that for us.

With all this in mind can you see why I won’t waste time creating some plan for you? I don’t know you and what authority you have, you say above it’s all for love of coding etc. etc. so it’s mixed messages continuously. You need to try harder to post a message that does not contain slander and instead engage, not preach,

[BIGbtc]

@nemgun @tonbi Commit $2 million to MaidSafe. And don’t wait. Get Alex involved now. Your time is limited with this audience

[Al_Kafir]

@BIGbtc

And don’t wait. Get Alex involved now.

Hang on…isn’t he on honeymoon? …Oh well…yeah go for it, what can he possibly be doing right now that he could possibly mind being interrupted from…

[Josh]

@BIGbtc

Commit $2 million to MaidSafe

Let the responsibility of that ICO and the repurcussions thereof have zero to do with MAIDSAFE.
Karma is a bitch.

[nemgun]

@dirvine
You will not mind me for trying to speak in a sympathetic manner.
@dirvine @BIGbtc
We agreed to deploy funds for maidsafe, except that you may not know, but there are ways to do it, we need documentation for the requirements of the project to see how we can help, it’s not about asking @Viv, and then BIGbtc asking to give the investors money, like if we had money to throw away, remember that it’s investors money, and that one must justify its use.
Now @dirvine, you can remove the thread if you want, I just needed 30 minutes of discussion, know what’s going on, see what you lack, know what to bring, it is up to You to tell us what you need, I am not a soothsayer.
Just like you, I do not have time to consult all the members of the team, I prefer to have a report, let me know what I am based on, and see what we can deploy for maidsafe.
We have different working methods, it would have been nice to take the time to clarify this point.
If you agree do so, I would like to halt this sterile discussion, which is leading no where.
What I am asking is simply to have a plan that I can use to know how maidsafe could be helped, and how maidsafe wants to be helped, whether for funding, development, or anything else that can help The project has progress. Requirements, good documentation.
@dirvine, I have a simple question to ask, do you want help from NVO yes or no? it is very simple.
If so, tell us how.
If not, I will retire and not return for 4 months.

That said, it’s not professional to talk about people’s privacy, I’m very happy for him, but that was not a reason to talk about it.

[dirvine]

@nemgun

What I am asking is simply to have a plan that I can use to know how maidsafe could be helped, and how maidsafe wants to be helped, whether for funding, development, or anything else that can help The project has progress. Requirements, good documentation.

Ahh, tired now, what help are you offering? seriously I have heard nothing except you can do anything and I don’t believe that. What are you offering exactly? Are you the CEO or a developer that does this project, not for money, but for “love and passion”? I have no idea what authority you have or why you are speaking with me? Are you offering maidsafe help, or have you designed your own safe (I would love it if you did) or are you doing some gaming thing, or working with fiber optics sans the optics? or working with an ethereum contract language? I have zero clue chap, zero. I do hear you asking for some report or requirements, but with what?

I will wait and speak with Alex, I think it’s best you do not “negotiate” in all honesty. I appreciate any help, but this is not working.

You should also realise this is not my forum, it’s a community forum run by the community.

[polpolrene]

Okay everybody, let’s not go into personal back and forth any longer. I guess everybody made their point here. This topic is about the NVO Decentralized Exchange so let’s turn back to that. The tech, the idea, the project etc.

Thank you.

[Jabba]

Spoil sport @polpolrene, I was just getting the popcorn out. It’s not often we get to watch the calm and steady Captain get his feather’s ruffled. God I love a bit of online drama… does that mean something is amiss in my real life, or just in my psyche?