NVO Decentralized Exchange - Crowdsale

@tonbi can you answer this question instead of trying to avoid it and ramble about the rest of the post?

Or actually also an answer to the second question in this post: NVO Decentralized Exchange - Crowdsale - #574 by michaelsproul

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Imed/Nemgun will create the validator so he will be answering all questions regarding the validator to avoid any miscommunication.

@nemgun can you answer the questions? Don’t know who Imed is, can you tag him?

It must first understand that the validator, is a sort of trinity, later the code will be open source time to get on the market, if the Christian religion has worked until now, it is thanks to its forks.

I said it’s like a blockchain, without being one of them because the blockchains offer too much information, this blockchain will have to record the encrypted data, synchronizing the wallets, and placing the orders.

Now, the second part.

It is like a small smart contract, which will send the privkey to safenet, and store the decryption key into the blockchain, let’s say that it is a smart contract that does a 2-of-2 multisig.
Like christians and the holy spirit, you feel it is present, there is a connection between you two, but you can not touch it because it is god-controlled, here it is the blockchain.

Now there is the safenet where we will store the information of jesu, the private keys, like the book of jesu, its change all the time, to add more love, to change parabola …

Whenever there is a trade, the wallet will use a part of the safebrowser to create the private keys and send them to the safenet, retrieve the decription key and save it in the blockchain.

So, now the gas can be barred, and whatever someone wants to trade with it, whether it is or not, the blockchain knows which key it is, it will all sympathy create a small smart contract that will go Recover the key and exchange.

As a result, safenet will operate as a stokage website.

I have 4 months to find a name, at the moment it’s ā€œchrispilismā€, I know it’s rotten, I’ll find something else.

It remains only the 0 conf to elaborate, and I am in the process of reflecting, I would give the raiponse soon.

I forgot a small detail, at the end of each trade, another mimi smart contract will delete the private key and decryption key, that’s where I explore the conf.

Darius, i start to get used to you, i would need sometimes to decompress and have long conversations with @BIGbtc, @Josh, @whiteoutmashups …

You have a great username, it is like Darius from the underworld moovie :slightly_smiling_face:

@goindeep Let me some popcorn, i should ask Roboteddy from reddit, he would make a great movie.

@piluso You know, it is all the team who will manage the project, after all our discussions i though you will invest 10k BTC :wink: after answering so much questions you leave me behinde :cry: i will forgive if you invest 20k BTC i promise you will have a good ROI :wink: don’t forget to invite me for a :beers:

@Melvin
I have beard and I am Arab and brown, look at the photo, imagine oussama benladen and you will know who I am.
But you are right, we should add a picture on the website, just the time to go for a hair cut. :grin:

I must say I am with you on the investment side, always wondered how it would be possible to start an exchange on a network the in fact doesn’t exist for the public yet.

tag means putting a @ in front of his name to notify, not sure why you just explained how you looked and made some strange comparison…

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What on earth…

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Hi everyone, it’s getting hot here and trial by public forum can be difficult, with questions, accusations and slurs (which are not OK) freely thrown about. I think the fundamental thing here is that this is an attempt for a solution in an interesting space. For SAFE, exchanges will be a very helpful, if not necessary thing in the, hopefully, near future.

There are several really hard issues with a complex project, add to that crowd-sale/token issuance etc. and the problems are amplified. I know about crowdsale madness and also I have had a view of working as a company or close team on issues in the background and working in the open, a hard balance. If the project is difficult, impossible to many and solves a never before solved problem, I find it interesting, but I know also if it’s large enough then details are hard to describe. In the words of a great ad, ā€œhere’s to all the crazy onesā€ … we need them. However we do need to consider we are in the wild west here and there are many fraudulent projects.

So NVO is a project lead by a few folks that have some assistance from Alex of coinpayments. I know Alex and he is a great supporter of SAFE and has been for a long time, he is also a very successful business person, with his business partner, who like many of our Engineers keeps a bit quieter. These are good solid guys and great fun for a few drinks. The kind of guys you can trust and so far that trust is solid and unwavering. In short Alex and Sina can be a great help, but like us, they are mega mega busy and the last few weeks they have been frantically busy.

With that in mind I wish to give NVO the benefit of the doubt to a great degree, but, and a big but, the team need to calm down and type out answers, reflect on them and then click ā€œpostā€, if an answer is insulting, don’t post it, find out the issue in the question and try and answer it.

With MaidSafe I know how hard it is to answer questions and also to have folk state 100% certain failures. We see it all the time, even from our own folks. The amount of times I see, ā€œOh this is an absolute impossibility to do/know Xā€ being met with , ā€œwell this is how we do itā€ with the reply ā€œOh that worksā€ occasionally said grudgingly, as though it’s a defeat to have an answer to a problem is amazing. (How bad was that English :wink: )

if you are doing something hard, many will stand in your way with absolute guaranteed reasons why it’s impossible, you need to address that, but it’s not always easy. Depends on the ā€œsizeā€ of the question and that space it covers. I always like focused questions for that reason. It’s also not always possible to give one sentence or understandable answers to larger questions. Most folk will not read papers, research related papers or look at code. It’s hard as hell and distracting, but it’s vital to try and persuade people (not force agreement). many folk will not accept the answer, even when they know it works, they will ignore the answer and move immediately to the next ā€œabsolute guaranteedā€ reason it won’t work. That is exhausting and feels hurtful.

With this project I see reactionary answers and very hurtful questions, but trying to ignore that, I also see good questions that do need some thought and perhaps guidance to answer. This is the trick though, doing that.

I am not a lecturer and do not want to be, but sharing my own experiences I do find that dealing with the public can be very very difficult, but if you feel your head and heart are in a calm place then just post what you feel. It should not be aggressive and should not be insulting. It will be defensive at times and people reading should expect that, but it should always be courteous. I appreciate that is much easier for a native English speaker and we all forget that to at times. Strength is standing firm and listening, not jumping around.

If we can perhaps try and look to have good questions answered with patience and clarity then it will all go smoother. I feel there is something here that’s getting lost in the heat, so lets cool down and not try and react to questions, but find the real questions and answer them. In terms of SAFE and it’s capabilities, many here can help for sure. For your own project then you will find this community get down and dirty in the discussions and will help a lot to clarify and simplify answers to questions. Use that, it’s very powerful, but be ready for less than generous questions, there will be plenty of them.

tl;dr, Lets all calm down to a frenzy and answer with calm heads and warm hearts :wink: The answers will come and unanswered questions may remain, but lets find those answers together if we can. I feel that same about any project on SAFE really, I will try and help out if I can, but expect the community and myself to keep questioning the projects goals and progress. We as MaidSafe do not and cannot really endorse or heavily criticise projects so much as many other teams do, but we will try and help where we can to find the interesting stuff :wink:

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What’s Alex role here? Is there some financial arrangement between coinpayments and NVO. Is coinpayments a principal in NVO?

Can anyone at @maidsafe or coinpayments speak to the technical capabilities and background of the 2 NVO founders and the third participant?

That is the issue here. Not who ya know or how many drinks you have with them.

I agree the space needs people to turn a no into a yes. But it needs people with integrity first, then some capacity to know the challenge.

I am a longtime supporter of MaidSafe, just like your buddy Alex.

Please let me know if the team you give the benefit of the doubt to has the technical capacity to even start a project of this magnitude.

Thanks

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Don’t agree with the tone, but I do understand where the tone comes from @bigbtc. Besides the tone I tend to agree with your overall message and would like to know this as well :slight_smile: .

This is not an attack on you @dirvine or coinpayments (?) but I do want to point out that there has been previous misjudgments about business partners.

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Coinpayments as a company invested in the crowdsale and is a partner of NVO. Alex, representing himself, will be joining the project and speak for us in public events.

Going to put this playlist here because it’s been lost up there. If you have questions let us know.

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Nor is mine an attack on @dirvine

There’s an old saying in business. ā€œNot every good idea is a good ideaā€

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…Bingo. Sorry, maybe this was declared? But it was not apparent, for me at least. And Alex manages the escrow?

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I second everything David says here. I hope the community and the NVO team can heed his words.

I know this is difficult for both groups, but the community is for the most part capable of acting with respect and keeping to the detail.

NVO are struggling to answer to the satisfaction of some questioners for several reasons IMO, though I don’t know for sure what the balance is. @nemgun is the key to resolving the technical issues, and right now this is a crucial issue for investors: can he / NVO solve the technical problems and answer technical questions from outsiders to their satisfaction? I see that language is an issue here and it must be frustrating for @nemgun as it is for me trying to understand his answers, but this I think is where we should focus: clarify and clarify again (on both sides) and keep the judgements and emotive words out as much as we can or we’ll have another thirty posts to wade through every day and still be no wiser.

On the whole I see @nemgun answering the questions in part each time, revealing a bit more of what might be a solution, but keeping the whole to himself. I think there is a question here about whether this is to protect the whole, or because not all the details are worked out. We can’t expect either in a project of this nature I think though, so what can we hope for? I think we can hope to learn how well we think @nemgun understands the questions, the problems, and the technology he’s trying to build. I don’t think we can expect him to have answers to everything, or to reveal everything about how he plans to solve key elements.

This is because we know there will be competing projects for this market. We’re used to something different with MaidSafe , and I think we have been spoiled in this community because David and his team have been both incredibly open and behaved impeccably under the most provocative and stressful conditions. We’ve also had time to get to know David & Co, whereas for us the NVO team are complete unknowns, with some recommendation, but in a wild west where we must be wary of strangers riding into town.

My request is that community focus on technical questions, take care with language and listen without judgement. Clarify, clarify! But don’t expect trade secrets here. I’m gradually learning and able to piece parts of @nemgun 's explanations into a bigger picture but think he’s always going to leave the whole incomplete in this discussion for the reasons I’ve given. I’m still able to learn what I need to know, both technical and otherwise though.

To @nemgun & @tonbi I respect you for putting yourselves out there and dealing with some pretty harsh stuff. I would personally find this very difficult to handle without reacting. But do try! I’ve seen how well it works when David just reads past the crap and focuses on providing a straightforward technical answer, whether the question seemed to me ok, arrogant, mocking, dumb etc. Often those judgements were just in me lol :slight_smile: and the questioner was sincere.

The point though is it doesn’t matter what is in the heart of the questioner, for you (and the community) it it’s only what is in our own hearts that matters.

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MaidSafe cannot really, but I think Alex has worked with at least one member. He is pretty astute and I doubt he could be mislead easily. I think after the safex fiasco we all here feel a bit raw.

I know :wink: I have no problems with that, but I don’t know if I have had beers with you (yet). In any case this is all cool with me, I am not taking sides in any way, I just don’t want there to be sides really.[quote=ā€œMelvin, post:592, topic:13608ā€]
This is not an attack on you @dirvine or coinpayments (?) but I do want to point out that there has been previous misjudgments about business partners.
[/quote]

Yes, it’s a space issue I think. I see many projects endorse others way to easily and also projects use other projects to bounce of of. It must be very tempting and we probably are seen ass arses a wee bit as we try and help but keep a distance. It’s a fine line and when there are infringements it’s not always easy to fix them without embarrassment for these projects. I think we do not to bad, but sometimes we as a community can jump to force a fast resolution. It’s a decent balance though IMHO and I kinda like it, even with the few sharp intakes of breath and feelings of WTH happened there :slight_smile:

I think the guys have answered these points mostly now, it feels like we are all on track to find out and support or not as we all see fit individually. A lot of tech questions probably still remain, but I am sure we can find out what they are.

What we do in maidsafe is release ā€œstuffā€ and try and identify limitations, use RFCs and various papers to put forward our potential solutions and it works well. That may help here, but it is a ton of work for 2 or 3 folk to handle, especially during a crowd sale. Lets see though.

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Not trolling you here David and thanks for your answers. I’m getting a picture that’s quite disturbing. The ā€œtrustedā€ party of the unknown and seemingly unqualified , unrated and dubious team , is also an investor, partner and now spokesman. He also controls an escow account with millions of dollars.

We, you, should know more than that. And maybe Alex wasn’t mislead.

I’m completely baffled by your recent post that to some degree, and without any foundation other than association, legitimizes this entire campaign.

Thanks again and yes, I hope to have a beer with you someday.

It is so sad how you keep on trying to attack us. I was guessing you are going say Coinpayments has profit motive to support our project because they are the escrow.

Originally, we asked the Maidsafe team to handle maidsafe escrow. We also asked @happybeing, but he felt like he didn’t qualify. Only after they refuse did we use Coinpayments as escrow. Coinpayments only manages the escrow for maidsafe which is the third in volume and most of the amount in Maidsafe are from the Coinpayments team themselves… The rest like Bitcoin and other currencies are managed by other escrows.

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Yeah @tonbi

Now details of other escrows and Alex participation as a partner will clear up any fog. I’m totally wrong if all this is explained somewhere, and if it is, I apologize in advance. Please point me to this and if it’s not been previously posted. Post it now.
Thanks.

Well in many business environs that would be called a ā€œconflict of interestā€ and the fact you don’t see it as one is troubling. Because you supposed to be the CEO and keep all perceived conflicts, especially ones around money, far far from home.