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could you please join slack ?
https://nvoinvite.herokuapp.com/
For now we are managing the support there.
I think it would be great to have all conversation and information about NVO in one place, like a blog, a forum and some kind of chat on nvo.io itself. As it is now Iâve been pointed to Slack, Safenetforum, Discord, Medium and Bitcointalk (where I canât even post without paying a fee). I find this confusing and impractical. If the same information is copied to Facebook or Google+ or wherever, thatâs ok too, but there should be one central place for all communication and for answering all questions.
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I think @Sascha is right @tonbi & @nemgun, its probably time to have your own forum. No criticism here - itâs more convenient for me not to have yet another forum and just follow this topic - but you have the funds now for Discourse and in the long run it will help for there to be one place with all the Q&A and ideas. I know it takes a bit of time to set up though.
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Yeah or at least hidden topic here so it doesnât always shadow all other topics here maybe
Also wondering if nvo plans to help MaidSafe in any way, seeing as how they rely on it 100% and theyâre on track to raise more money than MaidSafe ever has (at $2m USD total estimate)
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Impressive $ raise so far and an equally unimpressive display of braggadocio by the NVO team. Lets hope this endorsement pays off for Maidsafe.
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@Sascha @happybeing @whiteoutmashups @BIGbtc
Excellent idea, and for sure you are right, the forum idea is great, the original idea was based on a zendesk support with chat in order to provide a knowledge base with a faq and live support to the users.
Yes for sure, NVOâs objective is to work with all the project, in earlier posts, i said that once the validator is done, i will require a permission from maidsafe to participate into the development and help them.
You forgot the plugin system, in the early stages we will have implement ot plugins of the other projects ourselfs.
The crowdsale is a success because a lot of participants know they will have a return from the DEX, and the tokenâs marketcap could easily make it to 500M-600M in 3 months as it will depend on the volume coming to the platform.
Personally, i would like to release the full platfrom before January 2018.
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I hope you know more than us about the chances of a stable SafeNetwork being available in 6 months.
It seems that may be the case.
Problem is delivery dates and expectations thereof have a thorny history here.
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I know that MaidSafe is working since three years, but NVO wonât need 3 years to deliver, and have to be ready in 6 months, after the crowdsale we will finish the full specifications of the NVO DEX, and will do all the remeaning research in the same time, which will require 15-20 days, untill there, everyone would have received their tokens, and the team owuld get the first milestone. 50% will go to Ton, and 50% will go to Yani.
Ton will amortise a portion of the marketing, and will setup the administration side, marketing, design, support.
Yani and I will recruit some developers and assign them the different tasks as we would have done the working dashboard, with the research results as a developer have to do a minimum of research before working on a project to get damiliar with the tools he will use, that will save time for the development, for sure we will listen to the developers regarding the possible improvement ideas and issues.
An API documentation needs 1 to 2 months to be redacted, the team will have to follow the timeframe of the documentations, Yani will work on the wallet with the designers and implement the features on the go, he will have to communicate with the API developer(s), I will work on the validator, and another dev who will implement the different coins with their assets.
Meanwhile, Ton will be in charge of the support and will take care of the communication, he will also work with the designers to get a fluid and clear design.
Alex will take care of the NVO promotion as we are at 99% sure that he will be the marketing manager and will work with Ton.
After the 1-2 months of intencive work, i will spend 1 week watching drangon ball, marvels, drinking beer and sleeping, as i will need to recover 
(i am sorry for this off week but need to have some rest)
After that, we will proceed to the tests and fine tuning during 21 days, the operationâs duration will be about 4 months. From there i think that our team will be heated enough to support MaidSafe and help them.
The development fees will be taken care of by NVO, not MaidSafe as all the projects supported by NVO. As we donât know about the financial situation of the different teams.
It is in the interest of NVO to help all the communities as this is what will bring the volume in the future, and MaidSafe could see and evaluate our skills after these 4 months.
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Thanks @nemgun I appreciate the answer but to clarify I was not questioning your development schedule or your ability to have a working product in 6 months.
My question is what happens if you complete your project and in 6 months time for whatever reason we experience a gap in alphas or tests or (beta if Iâm hopeful) and there is simply no way to run your validator on the SafeNetwork for a period of weeks or more.
Do you simply switch to another platform or do you wait it out?
I would assume the chances of that happening are highly unlikely but life happens and we are in a gap right now⌠a pretty big one.
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The objective is to finish the development in 4 months, and enhance the workflow of the team and its efficiency.
Once it is done, we will offer to help MaidSafe using the teamâs capacities. I am pretty sure that we can solve the issues, i have knowledge about rust and know some skilled devs in that field, if we can form a good team i am confident that we will solve the issues in about 2-4 months.
I know that there are always issues, i donât develop to get stuck, i do it to get to a result, and all my weaknesses helped me to bring results from projects i launched into my carreer.
If MaidSafe refuses our help, we will have to see other projects like radix, and if we still canât find partners, i will develop our own decentralized storage network and decentralized computing network.
We canât play with the investorâs money. you know, a lot of ICOs doesnât use milestones, while NVO does. Money can drive you crazy, and developers can start partying after the crowdsale and become scammers in the end while their intentions was originally honest. NVO will use the funds to create a suitable working environment, and will party only once the last milestone is delivered and meet each other. And this will be done only one month after the delivery of the last milestone in order to check for the sanity of the system.
In order to let you understand the vision of NVO, the team will have to remain firm on the deadlines, and deliver the project in a maximum of 10 months if SafeNet isnât delivered and will have to find all the sollutions.
In my mind state, i see the thing as a large industrial project, it is like having an avenue with a huge traffic jam issue, and i have to solve it in 10 months, i had the funds and my investors regarding the sollution to the problem, which will let the local projects of the avenue to florish (altcoins integrated to NVO). Even if anything have to be created to make it possible, it will have to be done, i noticed that a lot of people on the forum had issues with a guy who leaved safenet after the crowdsale which causes loyalty issues, i donât know much about this history. In order to answer this question (either direct or indirect) about the loyalty of NVO, you must know that NVO have to be loyal towards its idea, because without the idea there would be no investor, and NVO must respect the deadlines, then NVO have to respect the investors as they trust NVO and 99% of them wants a rapid return. NVO must be loyal to is positions, which says that we will implement the validator on SafeNet, NVO have to be aware that SafeNet is a wonderfull project, but it is first of all a service as when NVO will host the validator on SafeNet it will have to pay the farmers, so it is a service.
So regarding the loyalty of NVO towards SafeNet, NVO will offer to help MaidSafe as soon as it is possible, without forgeting its other loyalty regarding the investors, if MaidSafe refuse, NVO iwll have to find a different sollution and quickly.
If NVO engages with them, i am sure that we will solve the issues in about 2-4 months, and i am aware of what i am saying.
âKeeping the dialogue going will reveal more than is possible to know about any teamâŚâ
Appears that the @maidsafe team will get some unsolicted support
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Yes the most brought up question is generally people lack of trust in the Safenetwork and Maidsafe. I assume this is mostly because of their past investments. Saying we are going to use Safenetwork scares people. I hope imedâs answer is sufficient.
Definitely no lack of trust in either with me!
But an understanding that where there is no road sometimes it takes longer.
That said, Iâm confident that they will have a network for you and everyone else and that a gap like this is unlikely to happen again.
My hope is that you dont advertise using the SafeNetwork to raise funds and then make a decision to go elsewhere later.
To my knowledge Maidsafe is making no guarantee that there will be a network when you finish your project, thatâs the grey area.
(But they may be⌠is what my original post refered to)
Anyway good luck, I hope it all works out
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Already stated they will do that. Giving MaidSafe an opportunity/ultimatum to work with them or they go elsewhere
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@tonbi @nemgun
Considering the existing decentralized exchanges out there, why do you think your NVO dex will standout among the rest?
Bitsquareâs volume for example barely touches 7000 USD (total volume about 24K USD).
On the other hand, BitShareâs decentralized asset exchange is barely scraping 4000 USD in volume of bitUSD/bitBTC (with a total volume of about 2M in the BITCNY/BTS pair).
Where do you think these projects are failing and what added value are you bringing to the table to be able to compete with poloniex (or at least huobi).
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I invite you to get out of the SafeForum and meet the different communities, it is trie that a lot of comments pointed to the fact that NVO relies SafeNet while it is still under development, usually they ask how will NVO implement the validator on an non existing network. It is normal to give ultimatums, it is normal to offer support and help.
About Bitsquare, you can check their FAQ and whitepaper, the orders are limited to 1 BTC, how do you want to attract whales and bigger volumes ? How could you do high trading un a limiting platform, while NVO wonât be limiting.
In the interview you will understand the vision of NVO, whoch is not limited to the DEX, but to all the cryptos, this is why NVO have chances to compete with exchanges like poloniex, i really invite you to check it.
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I donât know if you guys know Alex, CEO of Coinpayments. He can verify that I am one of the biggest supporter of maidsafe.
You should check our slack. Every day we are defending NVO from criticism for using the Safenetwork. We tell them that we are flexible and we do have backup plans. Itâs the ideal scenario for both NVO supporters and Safenetwork supporters.
In business, we canât satisfy everyone hence there will always be people against us as well as supporters in any community.
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First, I think that question is funny itself because if you look at the current market, no one uses a DEX. Centralize exchanges monopolize all the volume. If we want to succeed we shouldnât compare ourselves to projects that havenât even succeeded in any way.
I believe the best execution method is to put great importance on other aspects of the project not just the technology behind it. Example conveniency.
Itâs really convenient to trade and store assets in one place. Why would someone go out of their way to send and deposit on another exchange if they can just do it right on their multi-crypto wallet that has both storage and exchange?
By implementing two type of interfaces (simple and advance), we can support beginners and advanced users. When you are dealing with assets, it needs to be simple for people to understand because people are afraid of losing their money if things get too complicated. Thatâs why I am hiring a pro-team to take care of the UI/UX and not letting any single individual do it. Which is also something most crypto projects donât do.
I am very confident in NVO. Even if it wasnât decentralized the strategy would have succeeded alone. By adding decentralization, itâs even better for users.
This is the strategy just the product alone with no marketing or reserves set up for liquidity. Thatâs another topic that will take quite some time to explain. As long as the product is solid it should be able to hook up some whales/market makers as our first supporters that will provide liquidity to the exchange.
At the end of the day, people are still more afraid of using a DEX than a centralized one. If we can make people be afraid of using centralized exchanges over NVO then we will succeed. How to do that without making people read block of texts of advantages and disadvantages? User experience design is the answer.
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Thatâs precisely why I am asking, they were all created with the same objectives, and most traders are also aware of the risks of using centralized exchanges (mtgox, bitfinex, poloniex, all of them hacked, some others exit scammed, etcâŚ) but even the most libertarian friend still uses centralized exchanges (while complaining about it), instead of using the existing DEX solutions out there.
Only by precisely identifying where they failed, you will know how to succeed.
So I infer from your answer that you think that their shortcomings is only convenience.
But there is another example that seems to challenge that, there is a very inconvenient and yet decentralized marketplace that is way successful than any DEX project out there: LocalBitcoins.com
They had peak volumes of 45,710,741 USD.
What about BTC-e? Its interface sucks ass, so awfully inconvenient to deposit and withdraw, and yet they are the 6th biggest exchange by volume in the world.
Remember @tonbi, you must validate your assumptions before executing, otherwise you will be wasting money and resources on the wrong solutions (for problems that may not even exist)
So again:
- Why do you think LocalBitcoins is way more successful than the existing DEX projects out there?
- What would make Poloniex and Localbitcoins users switch over NVO.
- What are the real reasons users choose the exchanges they choose?
- And why the hell people are using awful and inconvenient sites such as LocalBitcoins and BTC-e? What is their added value that makes them so popular?
UX is not just about nice GUIs, it is about researching the market and the motivator of its users as well.
Do a survey at least to see what is the most fundamental value that whales and traders appreciate about their platforms.
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