With arbitrum you can set lower fees than default too and - surprise - can get away cheaper than with standard settings too.
With setting a 0.01 gwei max fee we don’t get to your
For a swap… But e.g. To 0.02 for a tx with 18 outputs (so ~0.001 per TX output)
(just a random upload I looked up on arbiscan)
So yes your right sol is cheaper, if it is as much cheaper as you claim is highly questionable and even if it was 10x cheaper (which I doubt) that wouldn’t resolve the issue coming with Blockchain fees… It would just make it slightly less an issue for large data amounts and for home users that just want to upload their family pictures and videos the current fees are just pennies anyway and not an issue either
I’ve been thinking about this whole native currency thing and I feel the need to add something to the debate. I’m not gonna lie, I’ve always been quite happy with the introduction of a L2 token instead of native because of all the reasons the team mentioned (safer (at first), exchange adoption etc.). My opinion is rapidly shifting though and many of the reasons have also been mentioned here (less user friendly, costly at times etc.), but one very important argument that makes me feel the urge to prioritize a native currency more has not been mentioned here yet.
Ethereum is struggeling, and it’s been struggeling for a while. The main reason is L1 is simply not used as much anymore, everything has been shifting to either other chains (like solana) or ethereum L2, like the one we’re using. The problem with these layer 2’s is that they’re basically making Etheruem a massive data warehouse where L2s can store their data rent-free. What I would expect to see is Ethereum shifting their business model sooner rather than later, and if they do, taxing layer two for the chain usage will be a likely scenario.
Fees for storing data on Autonomi is already out of proportion, but if this would happen it would be disastrous if we’re not prepared.
For me the whole L2 (or even L3) concept is just temporary thing, that is why I never invested in ETH at all. It works, but it is way too complicated for average Joe.
People are used to collect points/tokens and use prepaid cards tied to specific company, but L1/L2 chains, bridges etc., those are very hard things to explain to non-tech people.
I am tech savy, I can handle any crypto, but my biggest problem is, that I really do not want to report thousands of crypto transactions to Tax office because I used autonomi as my photo backup solution. I even play with autonomi cleint code, but I never tried to upload anything, just downloaded test files. That is total legal nightmare. Even native crypto token will not solve it, it is still crypto.
So I would like to bring into discussion, the topic of creating some nontransferable right for upload. This mean some “receipt”, that can’t be transferred or sold. It can be bough with native or erc20 currency, maybe it could be earned by running vault.
This would allow someone to operate a real business, where he can sell people the “receipt” credit directly, and people could buy it with their CC, and it would not be covered by crypto laws, just by business laws. The operator selling such nontransferable receipt could collect cash, and under the hood buy that prepaid “receipt” for the user on autonomi using his erc20/native token. This way, anyone can join, business operator does not need to do crypto regulation reporting, and everything would be much much easier.
Like almost every modern game on smartphones. Almost each of them have some kind of virtual currency, you pay for it with credit card, and since it can’t be moved out, and has no monetary value, can’t be resold it is just a virtual product that company sells. There is no law required reporting it as a crypto transaction.
If any of those games allowed reselling of their internal currency outside of the game, or between users inside the game it would instantly fall into different category.
I have been dealing with payment providers and games with virtual currencies for many years, and all payment providers reject it if that virtual currency has a monetary value outside of the game. If it is inside the game only, and can’t be transferred between users they have no problem with that.
I think something like this could seriously lower barriers to entry when trying to sell Autonomi as a backup solution to SMEs
Most folk (sadly) are not really that interested in privacy issues - plenty of reasons, no need to debate that further right here.
However
Buy these credits, store that data forever
could IMHO make selling into SMEs a LOT easier.
Always remember, its the accountants you need to keep happy if you have any hope of selling to SMEs, it doesn’t matter how much the techies and mgmt like your solution, if the accountants encounter friction, it’s almost always a “NO!”
Well, just build up a company that sells that. Pay 1$ to the company, send 1G of data, you will get an http address where your data will be available for ever.
THIS. Rewards has messed up so many aspects of the network.
Rant:
If anyone forks the network to add in native currency, ‘rewards’ needs to get the boot. We don’t need vast numbers of empty nodes sitting around waiting forever for data, while we dilute the entire value prop of the network paying for their idle time. Not to mention the increased risk of cascade collapse failure.
from – Relatively fast, it’s a question of rather simple smart contract and some code that will execute things. ACT architecture already supports that. to – That’s less obvious, because that would require oracles for EVM to interact with Autonomi. But at the same time while we are able to bridge other currencies into Autonomi and exchange them internally, a bridge in this direction is perhaps less of a problem?
It’s already there:
Not a sign of this so far.
This would require changing node software, and without team’s approval it takes us to the thin ice of forking.
Actually, I’ve already invested a lot (mainly time), probably that’s on finish. I see it not as an investment, but rather an effort. It does not seem to have any returns Apart of looking for (and hopefully finding) a job, I also have other work on Autonomi, which I’ve neglected, but could also be interesting.
In this ACT project what interests me most, is not token itself, but a feasibility of a community effort like this to emerge in parallel to main team, and thus possibility of distributing project’s development to multiple teams in a sustainable way. I still think it’s possible, but maybe it’s not the best moment, when ANT token is in danger and main team needs support in the first place?
Converting blockchain ANT to native ANT is the big one, IMO.
I’m sure OTC (over the counter) trades with an escrow could be done for the reverse, by those who have big bags of farmed ANT to sell on. Obviously, folks could swap them for other goods/services too, to create an internal economy.
So sending/receiving is possible and safe, etc? How much has it been tested? Is it ready for prime time?
Assuming heads down on other priorities, but this feels like the minimum that should happen at the end of the IF cycle.
Sorry I haven’t contributed much to this thread/project, btw. It is very worthy.
It would be great to one-way transfer blockchain ANT into native. Folks could still sell their ANT or they could swap it for native ANT. Then everything internal to the network could be native, along with the performance/cost benefits associated with it.
It’s possible, but not safe (validation still not implemented, let alone mathematically proven). I don’t know of anyone except me, who has tested it. Feel free to do that, I’ll be grateful for any feedback. Certainly not ready for prime time, but we are talking alpha here:
Have you guys looked into Ecash (created in 1980’s)? Seems like it could be a nice fit for Autonomi if the network can solve the centralized part of the design.
Pardon my ignorance here, but it does not seem that BTC can facilitate P2P cash now that the small blockers have won the the war. Can we not just create a native token backed by BTC/data/digitized gold and put this to bed?
Small blockers won because blockchains can’t scale. If big blocks worked we would have seen that method working in at least one of the thousands of other blockchain projects. But all we see is faster blockchains with more centralization, defeating the point of a blockchain and bitcoin.
But i agree, if ANT token works as intended it could be a layer 2 solution for BTC to compete with lightening network. But i’m not sure we can back ANT with BTC. That would mean buying btc with what money?
Yeah, I could sense that at the time. I appreciate what Roger and others were trying to do, but even as a more non-technical person I knew it was an ideological battle and scaling was the primary issue. Also very contradictory. Hodl v. Cash. Gold has also always had something complementary, like silver. Theoretically, that should have been the end of it. BTC as gold and BCH as cash, but blockchains can’t pull it off. In an ideal world, I could see BTC as digital gold and ANT as digital cash. BTC is clearly the digital gold but it can’t also be the digital cash as it can’t scale, so what’s the cash?
Apart of looking for (and hopefully finding) a job, I also have other work on Autonomi, which I’ve neglected, but could also be interesting.