no they did not. People were genuinely interested in the ânew internetâ and the digital âcurrencyâ.
Digital tokens as a in game/network has been around a long time and well accepted in the gaming community. So the responses I got was positive unlike anything crypto related.
EDIT: Weâve had a form of digital currency for a long time now. Banks run their own and while the âpromiseâ to honour swapping it for cash at any time we know they donât have enough cash to cover even 1/5 of their currency. Laws make it so that the bankâs digital currency is equivalent to fiat and some countries will even guarantee up to a certain amount in savings accounts. (not trading, business, etc) and for Australia it was up to 250K for a person with savings account. Investment accounts were not.
This is one reason people were fine with a run of the mill digital token/currency that Autonomi had. But use the word crypto or things associated with crypto and it flips a switch. Listen to the team that they said many times Autonomi is not a crypto project and that is one reason it was much easier to get people interested in it. But now when they ask how to start, they often will just turn away.
Trust me bro credits ran out with this and even Jim in the meeting when asked if native is still on the cards was replying in a non committal tone of yes. The only saving grace was David saying it will be done, but with so much change in this area the trust me bro credits ran out.
Additionally it is trusting future core devs will even consider it important to develop the native any further.
I expect the underlying native token is still going to be there - it will simply be hidden and a fixed 1:1 with the new ERC token will be baked in, so all you see is the ERC in your wallet. Not clear exactly on how they will do that, but there is no means for us to use Eth blockchain - even a level 2, to pay for chunks - itâs far far too slow - it technically wonât work.
So, this means some new devs can, post launch, bypass this to directly interface with the underlying native token using Bisq or a fork of Bisq, thus giving us a native tradable token. Weâd still need a route to convert the ERC token into the native token, but all technically doable.
It will work on the principle of SIA and Storj. Their data systems are decoupled from the blockchain. Storj uses payments on 2 separate networks, which is analogous to 2 different currencies - Payout - Storj Docs
Therefore, I think that if you create an app for Autonomi you should not worry about payments. The wallet will take care of them.
I think that a native token in this version of the network can be developed but cannot be released because the developers go directly to jail. The only way is for an anonymous developer to release a copy of the network with a native token enabled.
As long as you have centralized payments, you can always refuse to pay bad nodes. I.e. if a regulator comes and says âyou will not pay nodes storing such and such data or you go to jailâ the Foundation can introduce filtering of payments to such nodes and so everything is legal.
@JimCollinson itâs good to prepare such system for complaints from the beginning with filter requests from a regulator, otherwise you risk the Telegram and Tornado Cash storyâŚ
Good idea re the dual on off ramps approach which IMO will ultimately be needed for the âtransition to the native token onlyâ for those that choose that option. IMO however they canât do everything at once. Itâs too big a leap ⌠the âinception/incubation of a new systemâ not easy and a big responsibility to get it right. As Bux said maybe only one chance.
The thoughts âŚmanaging risk ⌠bridging system ⌠stepping stones ⌠finding the path of least resistance ⌠⌠come to mind in reading the update link.
As David describes part of that is getting one component/product up i.e. data which ultimately IMO is the most important point of leverage i.e. ⌠"ownership of my own account data and virtual hard drive.
Critically a demonstratable/operational network rather than a concept enables us to progress significant data opportunities in the short term. Bux talked of Health and other data opportunities today where data ownership is a BIG issue. IMO our patient owned health access account with data permissions is the trojan horse and natural convergence path with Solid/Inrupt whilst positioning both as part of a global standard "senseâ operating system.
IMO the network native token is ultimately a component within âcommunity based multi currency ecosystems using the user UI/UX as Jim described in LinkedIn recently as
âWhat if we turned that around? A rapid, privacy-preserving, micro tendering processâ. What if consumers could use AI knowledge and synthetic data of businesses and potential solutions to their needs? And then AI outputs a bespoke application to fulfil that, assembled from a variety of sources â or even a brief to sell back to biz?â Nice! @JimCollinson ⌠thinking about how your âsolutions to needsâ design method can be applied to a autonomi enabled health access UI/UX ai Wellness requirement within a national autonomous utility network template.
Perhaps the blockchain could be stored on the Autonomi network? Then every node could work like a full blockchain node perhaps?
As the native token will be actively developed, and Transaction datatype is not being taken out, will it be possible to launch native-token-only local networks?
If that was the case then its a no brainer to only use ERC for on-off ramp and not integral with paying nodes and receiving. The problem being overcome is the slowness of the native. To have it baked in as you suggest then means that the slowness is not solved.
Itâs tough when reality comes knocking. But every project in the world gets a reality check at one point.
Iâm so glad that Bux is here to make the tough, but correct choices, (with David and the team,) to finally get one of the best RnD projects ever, to the start line.
Letâs call the new Network Token: theDreamIsNotDeadYetCoin. No? Lol
Often success depends simply on moving forward⌠baby stepsâŚ
Yes, thatâs why you use more intermediaries. Once you take the payments out of the network, it doesnât matter how many intermediaries you bring in, you can increase them to infinity.
And thatâs OK for this autonomous network, no sane person expects the devs to go to jail for our rightsâŚ
Letâs just make sure itâs locked and loaded before CBDCs! By that I mean the currency, not the transaction type that already is and will continue to be there.
I think this approach is far more reasonable than just waiting and waiting and waiting.
Letâs go all the way but letâs take the network out to dinner first, shall we?
This discussion is what makes our community great. In most projects you donât get any say in how things are run. In Autonomi the management is transparent and honest. They try to answer everyoneâs questions. Thatâs why this project is the best.
Very skeptical that would be the case if they incorporated Bisq. Itâs peer to peer, so they wouldnât be at all involved in the transactions. Itâs just code like the network itself. If they can get in trouble for authoring code, then the network too will get them in trouble as it permanently hosts data -some of which will definitely be illegal somewhere.
I think a pipe dream - there will be so many parts of the code made matching the erc20 needs⌠This would require forking the code and changing the right stuff in the right way⌠If youâre able to do this you could as well just develop your own version of the networkâŚ
The DAG is too slow for paying for nodes. The token transactions apparently as fast enough but the auditing structure (DAG). EG rank takes so long to catch up
So one of the major problems is to replace it with ERC transactions. The native is there fore basically sidelined.
Oh man⌠Uploads to wait for a while just to handle the payment⌠Price changing during upload - repayment needed⌠This might become a nightmare performance wise and when looking at the details cost wise âŚ
Plus this is looking to the future and with core devs changing over time there is the natural tendency to improve the status quo and since the erc has made the system work, who will even think to work on it let alone try and reincorporate it back into the system
My thought also is how many times will there be a node in your 100 to 3000 chunk file go off line or churn away from looking after that chunk address. So now by the time you have obtained the ETH and layer 2 GAS coin you might have one or more nodes no longer wanting the chunk they quoted for hours or even days ago. Not everyone will have the ETH/gas coins on hand
By paring the native (without DAG) with the ERC though at 1:1 then we donât need a DAG as ERC is audited though Eth blockchain.
I donât see how an ERC can come anywhere close to the speed of the native token sans DAG. In fact many chunk uploads failed in the past due to speed of communicating between client and node ⌠if we have to wait for Eth blockchain to confirm transactions how can that even work?
Edit: Several, including myself, have asked for clarifications on this ⌠so will wait to see what is said over the next few days from the team.
