Lets not go though another bull market and sit on our hands. Last time BTC rallied for some reason we decided to HODL right back down to 25% of the peek then it was like oh crap we only have enough money for 12 months. I have said it before but the only way HOLDing seems to make sense is if the dev team accepts being paid a set amount of crypto regardless of fiat price. If the costs are in fiat and the funds are in crypto the project is engaging significant risk there won’t be enough runway to make it to profitability. This risk doesn’t care how promising our project is or how profitable it will be at the end. It is simply a bet on the bitcoin market and it would really suck if it crashed again and we missed a second opportunity to secure all the required fiat to make it to the end.
This holds true if dumping all existing BTC will ensure project (beta) completion.
If they have held all the way through the bear market I think it’s silly to sell now with the halving less than a year away.
I understand your concerns though, but BTC is going much higher than this in the next 12 months.
@Cryptoskeptic yes I am kinda just assuming there even was ever (and maybe right now) an opportunity to exit BTC and make it all the way to the end. Even if there is still not enough I don’t think we should bank on crypto markets working out. We should take what we can get and hopefully that will at least get us CLOSE ENOUGH to attract other sources of investment.
@Sonder Bull runs often seem like they will never end when you are right in the middle of one. Its a common mistake (and one I have made a few times) when trading crypto to forget you need to really sell some to actualize your profits. Being up on paper at one point doesn’t do us any good if we are down when we really need the money. In any case this is not a bitcoin investment business. It’s a business that needs fiat in the end to fuel it and only incidentally became involved with crypto because that was the form of currency the crowdfund used. I think we should stop acting like something we are not. Sell the bitcoin and focus on producing the SAFE network, rather then try to outmaneuver the true professionals at the art of trading.
@Antifragile I can’t point you to a quote but I believe it has been confirmed by people on the inside that a significant portion of their funds are held as bitcoin.
100% agree. If the goal of the business was to invest in bitcoin then that’s a different business. The goal here is to finish developing the SAFE network. If we can get out now with enough to complete the main goal, why are we not doing that? If BTC does go to 100k you can say after the fact damn we could have made lots of money as a bitcoin investment business, but we aren’t one, so reducing risk to achieve our goals is in no way a failure.
Is this Groundhog Day or Whack-a-Mole or was the sustainability of Maid not discussed already in recent weeks? All for views, but I thought that train of ideas and free-thought had been exhausted to oblivion. In particular since the recent changes in the team and assurances that this issue is in hand with David.
The available documents at Companies house indicate Maidsafe had approx 850,000 pounds cash on hand and approx 2,500,000 pounds of BTC on hand at around Feb 18. Make of this what you will
I think this is a different topic. Its about dumping BTC for fait at the right time. It’s already accepted this is going to get done. I more want to focus on the specific question of WHEN is the right time to sell it.
Or we focus on launch, that is a much better plan. What exact X currency we have left and how we spend it is all a gamble. We are as open as we can be, any more and every single pariah will eat us for breakfast. Lets just launch folks. i would love 100% of everyone’s energy in that task. Playing markets is for other folk.
But are we not kinda playing the market by HODLing the funds as BTC? I mean the whole thrust of my argument is get out of that at a decent time like it is now. Then never look back at that issue and just focus on development. If the funds are in BTC, its sorta required some energy goes into analyzing the market. If we get out of that, no more energy is needed for that task.
Yes, or selling now or yesterday or last month or next month. We cash in for £ Brexit happens the £ collapses etc. it is all a gamble and I need every single person focused on launch. I am and will launch if we have cash or not. It is our duty. Money is needed, we have had to make sure of that for 13 years. The worst way to make sure it is all ok is show your hand to potential investors or folk who can help, right until you have to. We try to do what is right, but every single second we spend guessing markets is really taking energy from us. Traders fail 90% of the time. We don’t, or at least have not so far.
hold it as USD or Canadian dollars. We aren’t worried really about fiat imploding quickly over here, although anything can happen. Truly I believe in crypto long term more then fait. I would agree that as long as the cash is not needed at a specific time, at some point in the future it would enable people to be rewarded more then holding fiat. I am glad to hear somehow this project will get done, even if people need to delay rewards.
That said, I would rather see you eating well in the meanwhile and I think you have received my input on when to sell the bitcoin if you have to play that game at some point.
Not trying to perpetuate the convo here because I know we all want to put the topic to bed, but if taking profit is required at any point to realize windfall gains and / or secure funding, I would incrementally cash out into physical gold. No need to play Russian Roulette with fiat. We’re also in the home stretch, so get excited.
I am skeptical about minerals holding their current value much farther into the future as asteroid mining becomes economical.
Pretty sure we’re good for a few more years.
Seriously, another topic on how Maidsafe should handle their finances?
This is hurting the project, creating FUD, and sounding more like trying to leverage a trading strategy using a holder of the coin.
The dev team are discouraged when they see comments telling them that they need to do (should do) something drastically that is not being done by management as if management is not handling the finances correctly. It creates doubt and thus fear of funding and management problems of the company that employs them.
It is a true saying that where there smoke there is fire. But in this case the smoke is from a few (hopefully) well intentioned people and blowing through the company giving the impression that there is a problem where there is none. When in the other topic David mentioned the problems these topic caused with the effects it has on people in the company I would have hoped people would have realised talking up funding issues where there currently is none is not wise.
Concerned community member speaking
I stopped following that other topic because it seemed to have degraded into personal vendettas. I was just hoping if we narrowed the issue to one specific thing we could focus on the issue at hand. I mean it is pretty well accepted they will sell the BTC sometime so its not even saying woah do a total 180 here. Just a question of when is the right time to make that move. As someone who pretty much makes their living trading crypto I thought I should offer my input on that to increase the successful execution of this action. I don’t see how it is FUD to say oh look the thing you are HODLing is worth a lot and its a good time to sell. I think its actually a positive thing to note there exists this opportunity.
And you missed the point
well the comment from @JPL when he closed that other one was because it was descending into personal augments and I would be fine with closing this one if that happened. I felt like this was truly a new topic (even if it has intersections with that one) and not just inviting people to pick up where they left off with that hot mess.
If your point was community members tearing each other up looks bad then yes I agree with that, and really sought to avoid that here. If the point was now certain areas of speech are now prohibited, I don’t think that serves us well. Yes we need to stop people from fighting each other, but I would not agree that means we should never approach any similar subject in our discourse ever again.
TBH I would have posted this anyways and it was no way inspired by the other thread (its really just the bitcoin market that doesn’t care about our little squabbles that inspired it)… but I did know I was kinda walking on eggshells here just cause that happened over there, and was ready to shut it down and think of a new approach if we encountered the same problems.
No you totally missed the point
No this is a technical community forum and the words we say carry weight and can hurt others.