Okay - I wasn’t aware of that - now that’s a bit dull
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@riddim Do you mean a register list containing a link to all files and metadata files? I mean it could work but it would mean that everyone would need the ability to edit it - I assume sharing a common ownership key, which would be a disaster. With the smart contract approach it would ensure the only data that can be submitted would be two 32 byte xornames per submission.
@happybeing I understand the team isn’t focused on this stuff yet, but as I am building an application that will use this functionality I decided to just put it out there so other developers could agree on a standard. This way we could have many applications being able to work with the same data structure, instead of each application creating their own way and having to translate different metadata types created by other applications.
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Is a Blockchain anything different than a list anybody can append stuff to? Not sure it’s that fatal but I agree there would need to be a smarter algorithm to make sure it’s not spammed to death
If that agreement includes the external smart contract on some Blockchain I’m afraid I’d be out =D that’s a no-go for me (and I guess pretty much all OGs here…) There’s no way such a dependency would be acceptable as ‘standard’ I use in my world…
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Long, long ago, well in 2018 
, a way to achieve interoperability was demonstrated using LinkedData storage. The demo implemented Tim Berners-Lee’s Solid protocol using Autonomi (then Safe Network) for storage.
The idea was that apps would store your data using LinkedData/ RDF and and a user you could switch to using another app at any time because it was easy for anyone to write their own app to read and write data created and read by other apps.
A benefit of this approach was that existing Solid Web apps could be used on Autonomi by swapping in a modified version of the backend library. This worked, and we had a Blog app, File Editor/Manager and others working on Safe Network.
Earlier the same approach was used based on the RemoteStorage protocol and we had RS apps working with an earlier SN API.
These could still be made to work with the new API but have been stalled waiting for clarity on aspects the API which still hasn’t come.
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So with smart contracts, you can have permissions, even such things like only allowing certain account holders the ability to submit - or do whatever you define.
With the smart contract I created - it allows anyone to submit a simple xorname pair - basically two links, one to the file and another to the metadata file. It ensures that only valid 32 byte xorname hashs are submitted. Mind you the user could submit ones that link to nowhere - but they would waste their fee on doing something like that.
The standard would just be what data structure the metadata object is in terms of frontends and application code - where that data comes from could be anywhere.
As for the blockchain thing, I know many of the OGs don’t like them, but we are going to be using the blockchain for the token for quite a long time - and I doubt they will just not use the token. But yeah it will be optional for a reason. The choice imo will be using some private search engine on a server, or using a decentralized search engine that pulls metadata from a decentralized source.
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Oh interesting. I’ll have to read up on all that.
Yeah I had read that Tim was working on some new tech, because of the way the web has turned out. I guess it’s what drives us all in this space really.
I’m also waiting on the release of the API and documentation so I can see how things will work. I guess the focus is just getting the network stable right now.
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Here you go:
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Which would be the same as like a curated list with known public address but private private key 
which would be pretty easy within autonomi too
Same with uploading data onto autonomi - costs too and not being valid xor addresses would be pretty easy to diagnose.
One could even implement an element of pow by saying the xor address of the metadata must be below a certain threshold or within a certain range to be valid… (and the metadata gets an additional field for the pow bytes)
… Just thinking loud here… I don’t claim this to be a (good) solution…
Oh dear… I just attacked the network by storing a lot of data in a certain xor range maybe …I guess the criteria should not lead to data ending up in the same nodes…
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Yes but uploading the metadata is fine, i’ll be doing that also. But how does everyone find this then?
I think I mentioned above that we could implement a L1, where each node would using POW verify the hashes of files etc. I just don’t think this is going to happen so i’ve got to be realistic!
The main problem is how to find all the links to this metadata. And a smart contract solves this.
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These are the kind of things that should have been debated on the dev forum months before the API was finalised, and we were doing just that when Jim Colliinon announced it was probably going to be shut down and those discussions stopped dead.
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As I said - you do have a solution and are eager to build it - so you’re right!
I don’t have an alternative at hand I would consider good enough… And it even might be application dependent… A news app could just use a register per day… - a music app could use a data structure using different styles… Whichever does make the most sense for the data structures…
… A forum app similar to the decorum concept might utilise pow for answers (publishing a public address and part of the private key… So someone answering would need to bruteforce for some seconds to get to the right key to be able to post there… @bzee… Just something coming to mind since we don’t have mutable data anymore where someone can simply choose an address.)
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I do believe there would be a lot of worth in extending the definition of the datamap to include some meta data. The data is perfect for storing meta data and then the client can just include it as the file is being uploaded.
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I miss this idea @joshuef
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Fwiw, I don’t think it is up to autonomi gatekeepers to decide whether an app should use blockchains or anything else.
Devs are going to find creative ways for linking diverse technologies, and that should be applauded. Let there be competition. Let the best approach win.
Ofc, fully native apps will be great, but it definitely shouldn’t prevent devs thinking outside of that box, imo.
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Agreed, but also comments
were being called for.
I don’t think anyone was saying that they could not do it for some “Autonomi” reason, but were commenting why other ways might be better for one reason or another
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