I would like to take the opportunity to reach out to all community developers. So far it seems either there is a small force or we are fragmented.
@loziniak@happybeing@Traktion are currently the trailblazers I am aware of but this is a call to action. Let’s all share what resources, knowledge and progress we have and work towards solid approaches and standards. Currently there isn’t a trodden path yet, there are no road signs and the terrain is bumpy.
So perhaps we could start by
Gathering a list of all active and willing community devs
Set up an open and available communication channel
Create a comprehensive list of what we need from API’s and docs
Pool resources and knowledge of what we know and can currently achieve in an open source manner
Work with Maidsafe to push API and app development further and faster
If you are an active and or willing community developer please raise your hand in the comments so you can be listed and contacted as part of the community dev pool. Thank you!
There is a need for this and it has been discussed, including advocated for by @loziniak as I expect you know.
It’s one of the reasons I believe it is important for developers to have the dev forum, but Autonomi or at least @JimCollinson seem determined to shut that down.
That was a place everyone could send developers to and where developer specific resources, discussions, examples and ideas have been accumulating for years.
Until we have a space which is dominated by developers it will take a lot more to achieve the goals you set out, so whether it is the dev forum or somewhere else I think that’s the priority.
Trying to create such a collection and sub community here just isn’t going to work IMO but if people have got examples of where it has worked well, I’d like to hear them.
I guess we should also look to what is announced this week as the API is due, although I’ve no idea what that will entail. The code API is far from ready IMO and largely untested. No feedback from those using it has been solicited.
Publishing a few docs and a JS binding isn’t delivering an API - ask those who use such things. Users outside the team have not been asked for our concerns and suggestions, or our ideas listened to as far as I can tell. And yes I’m a bit fed up with all this in case you couldn’t tell?
But Nick, it’s a good thing to raise this and try to get something going for developers. ,
I’ve not spent much time on this recently, but it does feel like the focus is more on hosting nodes than developing apps. Case in point, there have been no air drops of beta network tokens to developers. That was/is actually a disincentive that has been highlighted a number of times.
I also feel that there was a short flurry to support devs with Discord exposure or some such, but personally, I didnt receive anything through that process. I hope it did help some others though.
Likewise, we tried to engage on the dev forum, but posts were ignored, then the forum was shut down. I know resources are limited, but it feels like a foot shoot to me.
Maybe there are secret partners being given more intense support? Perhaps we will learn more later, but this hasn’t helped us enthusiasts trying to do our small part. Afaik, the bamboo fund still hasn’t been leveraged in this regard either.
My advice to the team is to engage closely, and publicly, with those willing to code for the platform in its currently evolving state.
Personally, it feels like a bit of a missed opportunity. I’m starting a new contract in a week’s time, but have had a few months where I could have done more for Autonomi. Maybe in 12m there will be more enthusiasm to engage, but my sn_httpd app will remain very much an experimental side project for the time being.
I don’t think is nefarious or anything at all. From my understanding, besides much of that info being out of date so potentially confusing, is that the discord was the new hip place for non technical new comers and this forum could take the place for technical discussions.
We could use the forum in this way buuuut imo it’s just kinda home for all discussions and a lot of long time community members and they shouldn’t be discouraged from posting or engaging here.
Mark, I’m asking you this because you have some of the highest standards and preference for privacy etc. how do you feel about slack? What platform do you feel is best at organizing, sifting, info?
Not with that attitude Mark! In all seriousness, I 100% see your frustration and perspective.
Have to put feelers out there though.
Trying to keep things as positive as possible and respect everyone’s approaches here, really don’t want to distract @maidsafe from their goals but I also think it’s important the team or leadership at least realize the moral and sentiment are starting to shift after a decades long wait. Not that there won’t be new found interest but the folks that are here willing to do things right here, right now to make for a more explosive and productive launch, are becoming frustrated to a high degree. I just don’t want to see a mutiny!
It’s a bit of a help us help you situation it seems.
Regardless, let’s keep our chins up. It’s always darkest before the dawn.
People! If you are a developer currently or planning to develop on Autonomi, raise your hand
If Autonomi wont put their hands in their pockets to maintain a dev forum, we should do it ourselves.
Off to check if Hetzner have any free forum apps for their cheapest instances.
Enlightened self-interest BTW - if it costs me a few tens of euros to host this for a few months, its nothing as to what I (and the rest of us) will earn if the token takes off properly. And to take off properly we need a load of well-informed motivated independent developers.
I dont have the dev skills but I do have the urge to support the devs any way I can.
Meanwhile my Discourse install has gone off the rails
/usr/share/rubygems-integration/all/gems/bundler-2.4.20/lib/bundler/cli.rb:34:in `dispatch'
/usr/share/rubygems-integration/all/gems/bundler-2.4.20/lib/bundler/vendor/thor/lib/thor/base.rb:485:in `start'
/usr/share/rubygems-integration/all/gems/bundler-2.4.20/lib/bundler/cli.rb:28:in `start'
/usr/share/rubygems-integration/all/gems/bundler-2.4.20/exe/bundle:37:in `block in <top (required)>'
/usr/share/rubygems-integration/all/gems/bundler-2.4.20/lib/bundler/friendly_errors.rb:117:in `with_friendly_errors'
/usr/share/rubygems-integration/all/gems/bundler-2.4.20/exe/bundle:29:in `<top (required)>'
/usr/bin/bundle:25:in `load'
/usr/bin/bundle:25:in `<main>'
An error occurred while installing rake (13.2.1), and Bundler cannot continue.
In Gemfile:
annotate was resolved to 3.2.0, which depends on
rake
More to look at tomorrow - Im getting shouted at to be somewhat cleaner before going out
The problem is, the maidsafe/autonomi devs need to be onboard for it to be genuinely useful. There are/were questions that need/needed their input.
Ofc, we can share ideas between ourselves, but surely the team should be behind and engaged with it. Surely, we are all trying to push in approximately the same direction?
I personally always felt of the dev forum as something that draws resources… Looked a bit dead over there… Not much activity… Mainly outdated stuff…
… Does a dev forum really solve a problem if there is no api to built upon?
… In this second I think it would just be an empty space where I wouldn’t see a reason to go because there is no api…
… The moment we have language bindings (or at least a clear path to make language bindings from an api) and people asking dev related stuff that exists but isn’t visible because this forum is too active with non-dev topics I’d be for another dev forum… Until then I think it’s just fragmenting our resources and making us weaker imho…
A 'colorpicker'-website about the main color for the new page:
‘Shoe Wax’ embodies the essence of a subdued and muted atmosphere, perfectly represented by the hex code #2b2b2b. Evokes feelings of neutrality and restraint. Its dim and ashy characteristics providing a grounding backdrop for applications that require a sophisticated yet understated touch.
That’s a fair point. What can we say we have at this point? Two different data types AFAIK
Mutable data type - Registers
Immutable data type - Chunks
Storage and retrieval via sn_client
But no full fledged API and zero bindings or FFI.
Having the nodejs bindings would be huge I think.
I’m not as technical as the rest of you so I’m curious if anyone could draw a line in the sand to say “we can only get this far with what is currently provided”. I know there are some bugs that are showstoppers too.
Meant to mention you by the way @riddim but I know you’d said you were quite busy with work at the mo as well.
They let the domain expire, I reported it and they appear not to be recovering it - you have 30 days - @JimCollinson just made a joke about it.
Yep, it was active when they was something to be active about but maintained all through the barren years, and shortly before it will be useful in creating and supporting a developer community, Autonomi decide to shut it down without consultation or explanation.
@Nigel, use of Discord and Slack are IMO poor choices for any project because they have different goals and lack vital characteristics, but especially FOSS, and ridiculous, unjustifiable choice for a privacy first project. So many reasons for that view.
Ideally we get away from GitHub asap for similar reasons, but for now I understand and agree with the need to use what gets the project launched.
registers don’t work. Hopefully fixed shortly but not there until it’s there and only discovered by a lone developer relying on funding from the community, because nobody else is testing this. That’s the second bug discovered this way, and not by the team who have no time for this kind of testing. Yet Autonomi don’t support it.
wallets are incomplete in many respects
creating self encrypted files is incomplete
no facility for storing keys on the network, key management, access control…
we don’t really have an API, but a step towards it. What we have arose in order to exercise the functions and to support the CLI. It was not designed as an API for developers, with their input, and has not been tested against use cases. This is understandable, I’m not saying it should be done by now. But we need to be realistic about what we have nine weeks before launch with two serious bugs being found by one lone, unsupported developer. Bugs that would not have been found without incredibly generous donations from the community and an obsessive who wants the project to succeed as originally envisaged.
I could go on but this is my Saturday time off!
Not all this is needed for launch, but it all makes it hard to understand what launch is now supposed to be. Or what role developers have. Or how launch based or an unexplained DePIN strategy with unknown commercial partners gets us to the fundamentals.
in the comments so you can be listed and contacted as part of the community dev pool. Thank you!
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