AUTONOMI Token - Price & Trading topic

Autonomi Network Token (incl (e)MAID) Price
4197

I remember all the pie-in-the-sky, quixotic thinking that marketing and the price performance of the token don’t really matter because somehow magically enough people will care about this project to carry it through at a loss. That’s beyond irrational. Again: “build it and they will come” is not a business strategy.

Imagine if MaidSafe had listened all those years ago to community members who repeatedly pleaded that they ensure wide exchange access for the token and that they enact an effectual marketing strategy. Sure, OMNI MAID was a dead end for exchange listings, but the conversion to eMAID provided an opportunity to greatly increase the range of exchanges that listed the token. If more exchanges had listed eMAID, it would have naturally carried through for and helped support the price performance of AUTONOMI.

If the price of AUTONOMI were higher, then there would be no need for emissions. Node operators could actuality get paid at a profitable level. Until the network is stable—I.e., data permanence is established—people would be warned not to upload anything they can’t afford to lose. Instead of wasting tokens on emissions that undermine the token economics in the network’s infancy, those tokens could be used to compensate anyone who uploaded data and couldn’t retrieve it. That would be a much better use of tokens until the network is stable.

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4198

Prices for uploaded files already adjust dynamically to token’s market price.
The only way to increase node operators’ income - feed files to the network.

If emissions didn’t exist, node operators running 60 nodes (my personal setup has been running 24/7 since day1) would have seen payments like 0.000000828870060062 ANT. That’s my biggest payment so far. Others mostly 100 times less.
Overall I had 18 payments from uploaders for 11 months. Btw out of those only 11 came from unique uploaders including two from Autonomi foundation’s wallet.

It doesn’t matter for node runners if the token’s price was 1000$ - they would have received ~ same $ equivalent I believe (for uploads only). Well if price was 10$ community might have launched their own small data centres :grimacing:.

I want to point out that actually emissions (in the time of almost no uploads) are the only way to 100% confirm that the setup works at least.

1 Like
4199

Approximately how much data was stored for that amount?

That is nuts. It sounds like the underlying pricing algorithm is nonsensical then.

Two questions (not necessarily aimed at you, @Obelius:

  1. Why can’t nodes reject pricing that is too low to be sustainable?
  2. I know there were some attempts to get partnerships in place in time for launch to ensure data flow into the network at scale. If all of those partnerships fell through and the network can’t sustain my run without them, why was the network telegraphed as launched?
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4200

It’s only half the story as far as I understand the algo. In the early days it was supposed to be tied to how much space was available on the network - excess space, nodes get little return, too little space remaining, nodes get an increasingly greater return.

I don’t know if that’s how it works now - but that was the idea of how it would react automatically to prices. So for example, if the token price dropped and nodes earned less, they would leave, thus reducing the available free space and so pushing up the tokens required to pay for storage.

If it does work this way, then, given the excess of nodes caused by the large amount of emissions that were happening earlier, the amount of tokens you could earn by actually storing data (and not via emissions) would naturally be very low. So now that there are far fewer nodes, the amount a node earns for storing data should go up.

This has to reach a market balance where people are willing to run nodes and where people are willing to store data. It’s an experiment, it may succeed or it may fail.

They can - they leave the network.

But again, I don’t know if this is how it works now - there have been far too many changes and I haven’t kept up. Perhaps @neo could weigh in on this - he has a much better understanding of current workings I’d wager.

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4201

His calculations assume that the same node/free space ratio is maintained at a price of $1000 per token. If there are fewer nodes or less free space, the profit for the running nodes will be greater.

I personally reduced the number of my nodes because I no longer believe that running nodes will ever be profitable. If the network is successful, there will always be so much resource from whales with access to resources for it that the small node runner from home will be at a loss.

The only reasonable reason to run nodes from home as an end user is the opportunity to receive tokens unlinked to your personal data, i.e. in a new wallet, if you buy them from the market, at least in the EU you can no longer avoid giving your name and address…

Check out the Impossible Futures!

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4202

Canary in the coal mine.

OG’s not running or reducing nodes is more of a concern to me than data loss and stability.

Participation is the heart and soul of the network.

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4203

Oh I participate, I just try to do it in the most efficient way for the network. In this case, instead of giving 200 euros a month to pay 4 internet providers and electricity to take ANT off the market for 50 euros, it is better for the network to pour this money directly into ANT.

My initial setup was based on the assumption that the network would need nodes, but the months since then have convinced me that this will hardly ever be a problem. The last stone in this belief was the appearance of a participant from a neighboring country, who easily threw 300k nodes into the network, if a person from a hyperinflationary country can do it, I don’t see when it will be worth it for the average person to deal with nodes, rather the really big players will run tens and hundreds of millions of nodes, and home nodes will remain a hobby for enthusiasts.

Check out the Impossible Futures!

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4204

Yeah, you make my point for me :laughing:.

Do you know what you spent on your rigs in total? I dare not calculate or even try to guess mine :winking_face_with_tongue:

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4205

Oh, I’m at a serious plus measured in ANT, when I bought them ANT was at 20 cents and if I had poured the money into tokens then I would have had significantly less, now my average price is under 3 cents. :happyant:

Check out the Impossible Futures!

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4206

Some OG’s took opportunitiy to sell RAM at the high market shortage price and bought ANT in an all time low, that paint things in a different picture. Then telling something to make it sound better and justified but that is a slippery version of reality.

It is very greedy and selfish in my opinion, not that those people seem to have small bags of ANT, not being able to buy food or anything. Community should be the backbone.

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4207

The community would have been the backbone of the network if there were not incentives for millions of nodes to pile in ahead of demand for network services existing.

Emissions crowded us out.

I agree that the current situation without emissions would likely not be fantastic for node operators, but the likelihood is that there would be far fewer nodes, as they would only grow in line with demand, rather than due to emissions.

If there were far fewer nodes, earmings would be higher per node (split between fewer), and nodes would fill up faster, pushing up the ANT cost of putting data on the network. Higer price per chunk uploaded + fewer nodes to split between would mean earnings would probably be a lot higher per node.

But, that wouldn’t solve the main issue, which is low demand due to poor UX.

Right now, with Merkle in place, I expect community members would be uploading many Terrabytes of data if there were good user experiences to take advantage of… even if some data may need to be re-uploaded at some point, it’d still be fun to be playing around with the network while uploads are cheap.

If good UX is impossible due to poor network fundamental performance rather than a lack of product / app design, then the team is doing the right thing focusing almost entirely on getting the underlying network functioning better ASAP, with a smaller focus on Indelible / Dave.

They seem to be making good progress & have a year of ‘in the wild’ experience now, so let’s see how they get on in the next few months.

Things could turn positive pretty quickly with data loss being sorted (which was the case for most of 2025), performance improvements, and some minimum viable product emerging in the form of a decent and engaging user experience that addresses an existing market (Perhaps indelible… I’m keen to play with that when it’s ready).

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4208

Many OG’s are running a lot of nodes with no regards to emissions, to support the network, the project and the vision for why we have been here for many years.

It is also in the best interest of large bag holders to support the network as much as possible, or should be in their intereset, to support and secure their investment by defending the network to make ANT reach a higher price which will benefit large bags of ANT’s.

4209

i agree, i believe it would be good if every community dev or team dev focus on getting the best experience for upload/download single files, folders, with easy UI and payment, also backup between devices like RYYN @oetyng . That is the core, if that is in place then the opportunities are huge. It is amazing that many has tried messengers, building sites and so on but I feel that will come later when the network matures.

I have a feeling that the IF projects did not deliver at the level expected, not even the top projects, for various reasons.

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4210

I agree, getting data over from existing storage I believe is an important step.

Like you may have drives in all forms with various level of importance. But the thing is that we don’t want people to just upload a few unimportant things to see if they will still be there in a month or seven. It’s both too slow and too low level of commitment. Rather we want people to feel confident that they can put all that they have into the network from start. And the network can’t provide that sense of confidence in itself from the start.

But if the experience of keeping data both on their well known stable drives and in the network is absolutely dead simple and ultra smooth, then that enables the user to feel the confidence without the network needing to be able to do that what only time can do.

So, ryyn is forming into a general export tool as well. From anything to anything basically, where Autonomi is one src/dst.

If you can attach Autonomi as a secondary or tertiary backup location, for one-offs or continuous, then immediately the full corpora is being channeled into the network without excessive concerns for persistence for the user.

There are other concerns as well of course, but that there is one of them.

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4211

Very interesting and good points, focus on what can be done with the current situation to get things going and make the most out it.

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4212

Exactly this and it pains me every day that it continues.

The emissions actively drive down upload fees, as the network is flooded with ‘promises’ of storage. I say promises, as we all know they don’t represent reality. Instead, we have millions of nodes with little actual storage reserved. Indeed, my node logs consumer orders of magnitude more storage space than actual network data.

We have been told we need lots of nodes are needed to improve resilience and provide capacity when the rush of uploads comes. That is only half the story though - we need lots of well behaved nodes. Emissions have failed to provide that, over and over. Indeed, I suspect they haven’t provided storage either (see above - why would they?).

While there is/was always an opportunity for bad actors to flood the network with bad nodes, the idea was that payments for storage would be more valuable to them. This would discourage negative behaviour, as it would be a net cost to them. With emissions, they don’t need to worry about that - they still get paid too!

I always envisaged that the network would start from a bedrock of community node runners. Spare devices, hobbyist home lab runners, maybe a few cloud pioneers, etc… then the big boys would move in later, as the network became profitable and successful enough to appeal to them. With the current emissions strategy, I just don’t know where this is all going.

The fear of regular uploads drying up causing node runners to shut down seems to have a strangle hold on the team’s approach. I can understand the fear, but the alternative unfolding is ripping the network and the community to shreds.

If the emissions was spent on paying data providers for useful material, instead of paying for bad actors to wring the emissions system dry, we would be in a far better place. I didn’t mean to go on another rant about this, but it is crushing.

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4213

I dont know if I understood your post, you talking about tool that enable export all data on network on separate location?

4214

I tested Ai locally yesterday and it was very good, I want and have been thinking of an local ai assistent, which can make lists, grab a recepie of the PC, make reminders of things to do and so on.

I wonder if that could be combined with a backup export tool like RYYN.
Local Ai assistents seems to be the next thing, not quite ready yet but just a thought that came to mind.

1 Like
4215

The fundamental layer of it is a pipeline from a source to a destination.
Then adapters are needed for each type of src/dst, say filesystem, GDrive, AWS3 or whatever.
So, yes you could export your data out of the network as well, just flip or do bidirectional.
These are layers that applications will use when they pull in deps for specific adapters. And one of those applications would be ryyn.

I have been deep into other things for a while now so there will be more details about this later.

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4216

I have the thing just right for you then :wink:

Well, sort of. We’ll see :slight_smile:

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