A place to learn about and discuss the pros, cons and best practices when planning a app for Autonomi.
Native solutions vs…
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The Autonomi team should fund some tutorials on how to build applications that work with Autonomi. It would be nice to see some basic tutorials on how to make example apps.
As to your topic - Having the ability to share proxy links to users on the clearnet that gives them instant access can bring in a flood of new users if one of these links goes viral. And when that link eventually goes offline it gives us the opportunity to explain how to access the content directly via local clients, bringing users directly into the ecosystem.
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I thought it was only me but it has become clear to me that it is not just me that starts something enthusiastically only to move on to the next as the novelty wears off.
So the issue is real that some apps gain traction then get abandoned, servers get shut down and access to data goes poof.
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for sure, that’s why when creating that server code for setting up anttp as endpoints, I ensured that the address is the link, that way if the server goes down - the link that was posted on clearnet websites will still be valid. Just copy/paste the end of the url onto either another live endpoint server or directly into a local client. This ensures that it does not matter when a server goes down.
However if someone creates some server application and has custom links to content, then that wouldn’t be great. It’s why I am looking forward to 4 word addressing, it would at least make them look nicer.
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Yeah I was about to say, some of those AnTTP links are pretty intense looking lol. But awesome and powerful if they’re truly permanent like that
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Also regarding uploading, if anyone is interested.
In my Autonomi browser extension, you can upload from webpages via the extension that is connected to a local client on the desktop. It works via web sockets.
The user would still need a local client though, but at least the data is uploaded without going through a server. This means website owners could add upload forms to their websites that would work if the user has the extension + local client installed.
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Building on that though, is there any way where the data could go straight from the client to Autonomi, without having to install an extension? Like in SAFE-FS I have a backend that provides a wallet, so people don’t need to install or download extensions or MetaMask or anything, for ease of use, but that doesn’t mean the data itself HAS to go through my server’s /tmp/ folder right? Or does the Autonomi CLI require it to be that way? Data + payment from the same '“source?”
Would be awesome if they could just use the easy wallet, but have it send the files directly from their client. If possible. Still learning
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You mean from the browser? There was a slight possibility I looked into, regarding using WASM to be able to run a lite client directly within the browser. I think the team themselves looked into it too but had issues.
The benefit of the extension is eventually it could also host the wallet, much like metamask does. However the team is now focusing on paymaster, which will let people pay for uploads without needing a wallet. So better to wait on that front I think.
Well if they are using a wallet on your backend to pay for uploads, then that means you are liable for whatever they upload.
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infinite tradeoffs, at this point it seems. The people need ease of use.
Do have a delete function though, so in this early version it is possible for SAFE-FS to delete / not show any bad data that is found. So permanent mistakes here. Might add in a moderator role.
I guess we’re all waiting for paymasters then
thanks for the info
What I mean is, when a user uploads content via your server - that is stored forever on the actual network. You can only delete your link to it from your website. But if someone uploads some illegal content via your server, you won’t be able to delete that from the actual network, which in most countries means you are liable for that content and it might get tricky when you tell the authorities that you can’t delete it. Just a fair warning 
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Liability in a permanent data network becomes minefield for developers.
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the network stores outside metadata that says which app uploaded what data?
I don’t think so, I thought it was just hash addresses and data.
Either way it is not in its permament form yet
Yup that;s why I ensured that any uploading is done locally where it’s the users responsibility. At least with viewing content a server can always use a blacklist filter, but for uploading it’s better to be safe than sorry.
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just that requires any user to master web3 in order to do anything 
The following is speculation on my part:
No, but if you are paying nodes for storage it “may” be possible to track what address uploaded what. That is if the amount paid can be linked with the file size and what prices are at what time. So if you uploaded a file, and then requested that file via somewhere (let’s say your server) then potentially that info along with fee & file-size might be enough for authorities to say yep it’s likely that wallet address.
Another way might be if a large amount of nodes are ran by the same entity, they might be able to see that. I’m not sure on can they see the wallet address of who pays for the upload, but if they can they could then know it’s from that same server.
Plus most internet traffic is likely logged and stored anyway for decryption at a future date, so that could be another concern as it would show what files were sent to your server to be uploaded.
Basically there are a lot of unknowns with this 
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right, my first focus is to separate uploads from the payment, so the upload only is client –> Autonomi. This is something I think I could actually achieve
Then the wallet is more of a convenience for people who don’t have web3 browser extensions, especially on mobile browsers. That’s the part that might persist longer term, for convenience, but if the cons outweigh the benefits one day it might have to go Hope not though
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Really agree with the call for more tutorials , that’s possibly the missing bridge between the network’s potential and meaningful adoption. But i would suggest we zoom out a bit … what if education itself became part of the network economy?
Instead of the core team having to fund or produce all the teaching content, imagine a Circular Edtech Model , where community co-ops, educators, and even small developer groups buy educational materials wholesale from Autonomi, then personalize, localise, and redistribute them at retail.
This would do three things ..
Funds the core dev team documentation sustainably (depending on community size/ growth), every learning copy is also a support license.
Drive real world network activity … learners run nodes, deploy apps, test uploads, and generate valuable feedback/data.
Builds circular value … education → network usage → revenue → more education → more network resilience.
It’s a kind of “learn by building” ecosystem where each participant strengthens the network simply by completing learning modules.
And because the learning happens on the network itself (e.g., via a distributed tutorial hub), it’s self-propagating … like a living knowledge mesh.
This could also complement your idea of viral proxy links… a learner could create the tutorial, host it on Autonomi, and teach others through the same medium .. a complete educational feedback loop.
Education builds the network. The network funds education.
That’s a loop worth building imo.
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Pros and Cons of Clearnet/Server frontends to Autonomi
It’s just like blockchain’s entrypoints (Infura etc.), it’s a centralization force. And it’s less justified here, than in blockchain – bchain full node is much more expensive, than using Autonomi APIs. Also, an excuse for web developers to stick to their technology. It’s a convenience, that will cost us our independence and novelty.
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I believe a constant education in all those apps will really help. Like, every gateway should say “we are a gateway and we can go offline, so just in case, learn how to access Autonomi directly”.
Every app should have a link to tutorial on how to run the app locally and access the network locally.
Because once the link goes offline, it would be great to have many more educators, not only the small core Autonomi community. This could be a good “best practice” to clearly tell users if they are using:
- Semi-solution like portal, gateway, clearweb app, or…
- Direct autonomous access to the network
Both of these approaches will exist simultanously and they can link to each other. Everytime a link from the gateway goes viral, it should capture a certain % of visitors to go and try direct access.
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On the contrary, web developers can use exactly the same technology as I keep explaining. It is a really great developer experience because everything is familiar, same skills, tools and approach building an app or website for Dweb.
This is why it is particularly hard for me to understand people ignoring that route. It’s baffling given the problems it causes for users, and developers. Maintaining and paying for] servers and domains for example.
And if something really does go viral @safemedia the server will die 