Will people really not want to adopt SAFE? Privacy seems biologically inherant

[Audity]

Sure people have given up their privacy for convenience. But that’s only because there’s no alternatives. (Not to say that: even with the dev’s intent to create a convenient network, it would definitely become a reality.)

Though, even in the current world, there are different levels of privacy. If I want to talk to a friend about a super private matter that might involve legality, I want to think of the currently most secure option. I’m not sure what that is, but through process of elimination I know it can’t be Facebook. I may decide to text my friend through my phone to his phone, though that depends on what kind of phones we both have.

Thinking about this problem when SAFE is in the picture, I would definitely choose to go with it compared to anything else. (It’s hard to explain everything I want to convey here, but I was thinking of all this while standing up and leaning against something, thinking about how more intuitive and “common sense” the world used to be, and how people built the world around them without being influenced by social media and oligarchs. This required much more grounded means of communication, without fear of being spied on constantly, the exact opposite of thinking Facebook Messenger is a peak of human to human communication.)

Though this begs the question, what if there’s an app right now that achieves this goal with a better comparison than anything else, that just isn’t known at all? (It wouldn’t be as good as SAFE, but it would be out there.) That would be because it hasn’t been advertised. Well hopefully with the crypto aspect of SAFE, advertising will come most naturally, as long as enough people here and elsewhere feel strongly about telling the entire world, all while they see the price rise. There will be awhile before it is all understood by everyone. People will be rekindled in their senses, so to speak, as they gradually pay attention.

I think there has to be a detox of the toxins that have been developing in people’s systems.

[Secretariat415]

Honestly you just never know what will happen. But privacy is becoming more important over time. We are anticipating the web of the future, and creating the best perfection we can to adapt to the future we envision.

SAFE may just end up being for the few people who are wise enough to appreciate it and lucky enough to know about it. We still need to create it, because failure is not an option.

[Freedomist]

The way I see it is the one’s who matter will use it. The ones who don’t, wont. Same as with the current crypto space. Its an option for people. Those who are interested in a more free secure way of functioning, pay attention to it and utilize it. Safe of course having a far broader reach of use case then crypto.

The key will be for people to realize the potential here. And that will take a great effort amongst all of us when the time is right to spread the word in a productive way. I am looking forward to that.

[Impacatus]

I don’t think there will be any problem at all getting a core of dedicated users. For storage, it seems like nothing else will compare. Will it completely take over the internet? Maybe not, but it doesn’t need to. The clearnet is good for some things, the SAFEnet will be good for other things.

Recently, reddit made some very unpopular decisions that have some users questioning their involvement. Not too long ago twitter did that. And tumblr, and facebook, and all the rest. This is going to keep happening over and over with corporate owned social media.

Right now, the only real alternative that I know of is the Fediverse. The Fediverse is fine, but it suffers from two problems in my view:

• Users need to tie their accounts individual nodes, and they lose everything if the node goes down. Meaning that the Fediverse isn’t decentralized, it’s polycentric. It still suffers from a lot of the problems involved with privately owned social media.

• Running a node costs money, but it doesn’t make money. This exacerbates the first problem because there aren’t so many people willing to run nodes.

SAFE Network solves both problems.

[Cryptoskeptic]

They will. When its available

[JayBird]

@Audity

people have given up their privacy for convenience.

This is often thrown about, but I’m not sure it holds up. Did people know what the deal was when they signed on?

You can use this service without paying any money - but we will track your every click, your every search, the time you log in and out, what other websites you go to, how long you stay online, the pages you follow, your IP address, the other stuff you download on your computer, who you talk to, what you say to them, and we will use all that to build a profile about you as detailed as we can manage and then sell that to the highest bidder. Do you accept?

I’m not saying people wouldn’t have clicked yes - I’m saying they never made the decision in the first place.

People “giving up privacy” implies agency, but there was no informed consent whatsoever. People were tricked, cajoled, bamboozled and sometimes outright lied into giving up their privacy.

And now that the business model is clear to everyone, and the network effects have played their powerful role, they perform mental gymnastics to avoid facing the seedy nature of the situation. There are various famous quotes about slaves accepting and arguing for their chains that I could throw in here, but you probably know them.

Has there been an offer of similar levels of “ease-of-use” and “convenience”, even with fun new possibilities, easy pseudonymous accounts etc, where people have been told:

Hey, you can leave all that behind, and we can prove that we have your interests at heart! No middleman, no third-party, no trickery like before, and best of all, If you don’t like it, your data is yours, you’re free to move! Come try.

[Franklin]

@Audity

Sure people have given up their privacy for convenience. But that’s only because there’s no alternatives.

I don’t know what you mean by this. If anything, there’s too many alternatives. There’s Signal, Matrix and XMPP to name a few. Comparison of instant messaging protocols - Wikipedia

There’s also i2p email if you want a more secure alternative to normal email. There are many, “inconvenient” options already.

[Josh]

@Audity

Though, even in the current world, there are different levels of privacy. If I want to talk to a friend about a super private matter that might involve legality, I want to think of the currently most secure option. I’m not sure what that is, but through process of elimination I know it can’t be Facebook. I may decide to text my friend through my phone to his phone, though that depends on what kind of phones we both have.

I don’t think privacy and security will attract masses, not initially. What will attract regular folk is that it needs to be better value for their dollars, pounds, shillings and pence to store data.

The key attributes will attract developers more so than users, those developers attract users.

[dirvine]

@Josh

I don’t think privacy and security will attract masses

I do wonder though if folk are feeling less safe these days and perhaps will be more aware of their own security. I have recently been smartening up the house with cameras and locks etc. but used home assistant and Zigbee/zwave, loran etc. to make sure everything is kept local with no internet access (also use the adguard in HA, which is like pihole).

Perhaps security from the snoopers like google, Facebook et al’ is not enough to make folk wary, but with AI now coming, I do wonder if there is a message here?

I have been considering this much more in recent months. Where AI for public data/consumption/learning etc. looks like it’s happening and is very real. In many ways I think a natural evolution. Hallucinatinos etc. apart as that’s a temp blip, the manner in which they encode data into knowledge is fascinating.

So I wonder is data now separate from knowledge, do we need all the raw data. i.e. the 2500 oncologist papers per month story, no doctor can read that! So perhaps the encoding if done correctly coupled with more accurate decoding, makes public data, simple. It’s certainly simpler than searching all humanities files and folders.

But, AI getting your data, no way. That does seem more scary than the big tech companies, in many ways.

So I wonder if this narrative is about to change dramatically? I also wonder if Safe should strongly focus on individual and group data security in a more focussed and sure way than other projects who seem to be In a potential race to the bottom by storing every data set they can find (sometimes at a loss)?

Lots of questions and lots to think about. It’s got me in deep deep thought for many months now.

Not that this expands what Safe needs to do, in fact it may simplify what Safe needs to do. What I mean is raw and old data can perhaps be passed to archive nodes only as secondary storage, Nodes look after personal data and simple websites, blogs etc. but the massive raw data is provided by AI models in the near future? This may keep Safe in the consumer grade nodes market in a really sensible way and steal a jump on everyone who does not see this happen, or just does not believe it will happen. (it might not, but that’s also OK)

Talk about something to think about?

[Josh]

@dirvine

I do wonder though if folk are feeling less safe these days and perhaps will be more aware of their own security.

Call me pessimistic, or disillusioned but if we compare rising internet crime with the most common passwords that can only be politely referred to as stupid, it seems the most basic of security practices are still barely an afterthought for most.

I think people are aware, but they are lazy and if coming up with a password better than 12345 is too inconvenient, lets be honest that with the current internet staying safe, no pun intended is hard work and requires knowledge few have, even if they tried.

Will there be a tipping point, I hope so, I don’t know what it will take.

SAFE in my biased opinion has little to no competition even from the others who are racing to store all the data that they can even at a loss.
I think it needs to be competitive with incumbent cloud providers not so much the new kids on the block, SAFE will leapfrog them.

@dirvine

What I mean is raw and old data can perhaps be passed to archive nodes only as secondary storage, Nodes look after personal data and simple websites, blogs etc. but the massive raw data is provided by AI models in the near future? This may keep Safe in the consumer grade nodes market in a really sensible way and steal a jump on everyone

Yes!

[dirvine]

@Josh

Call me pessimistic, or disillusioned but if we compare rising internet crime with the most common passwords that can only be politely referred to as stupid, it seems the most basic of security practices are still barely an afterthought for most.

Totally agree, we need an enforced mechanism where people can be responsible but we do need to prevent these silly passwords. I blame providers a lot though. Many times I have had strong passwords rejected as they were too long or contained weird characters and so on.

@Josh

SAFE in my biased opinion has little to no competition even from the others who are racing to store all the data that they can even at a loss.

I feel we have been in front, albeit philosophically and from the vision perspective and that is still as strong as when we started on this journey together. I do feel this is still what gives us an edge.

@Josh

I think it needs to be competitive

Yes, I feel it has to be at the lowest possible cost and that is where the consumer grade computers as farmers means so much. It should cost the minimum farmers are prepared to accept which I hope is close to zero, but still enough to get those with nothing on board.

[Josh]

@dirvine

Perhaps security from the snoopers like google, Facebook et al’ is not enough to make folk wary, but with AI now coming, I do wonder if there is a message here?

I think people need to see, physically see what is happening. The age old saying out of sight out of mind is powerful and true.

That said even those who have a fair idea will be shocked.

[T824601]

Truth, hard to say. It’s always a gamble and never a sure thing. There has to be a few things that fall together :

1: Fear
2: Uncertainty
3: Hardship

If a harsh new reality pushes countrys to block free speech, persecute and stop people liberties then yes, safe could become the new way people choose to communicate.

If nothing happens, if there is a status quo and nobody cares about being looked by Big brother then safe will be used only by the fringe and the dark market.

At the start its probably going to be very slow adoption, but time will tell how things unfold.

As for crypto helping people jump in I think it’s the opposite, people want ease of use. PayPal, credit card etc.

They definitely don’t want to have to use an exchange to be able to use something or need to mine something to get into an ecosystem.

Don’t forget, most people are dumb as dirt, they are not going to get, understand or know how to use this unless it’s less than a couple buttons and can use it without knowing about crypto or security.

[Audity]

I mean, those are three alternatives. Three that I’ve maybe heard of about never times in my life, and likely the same with 93% of the world.

I should check them out, though.

[Audity]

I mentioned this elsewhere (maybe as a topic in a less populated thread I made?), but I also can’t stop thinking about the fact that businesses would greatly benefit from SAFE as a new protocol. Almost a different topic entirely, but thought I’d just say it again. Actually it’s almost like it transcends all borders and people and things, but people like to focus on the masses aspect of it for some reason (like me). It’s a new Internet, that people would actually get on board with, if the original vision is maintained regarding accessibility and actually striven toward (dat ol’ lovely UI/UX). Given that we know an Internet done ‘right’ (current clear net) spreads like wildfire, it’s just a matter of developing SAFE right to start that single spark in the first place. The added challenge beyond that is knowing that the current Internet already exists – that an entire congregation of a species has melded itself with – to then somehow make this project’s allure enticing over it.