Waiting for the finalized APIs is the right thing to do, otherwise they would haven been wrecked already. But I understand all people who have put money in it. C’mon how difficult is it to like de weekly dev update, put a small message there once in while to show you’re still there…
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Yes, good to point out. They definitely seemed well intentioned it just didn’t pan out.
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I think this is the case. Not sure why they cut off all communications though (except for some health issues they mentioned… so I hope they’re ok).
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The problem is that now we have two unexpected variables present. 1. The money the project holds is unreasonable. 2. The project has been idle for years and we find ourself in a completely different crypto landscape.
@seneca has given zero info what he intends to do with the extra funds, is he planning on making 9 decorum like projects? Is he planning on scaling up his decorum idea into something bigger?
Who knows, not me, not you, no one knows. The only person who knows is @seneca and he isn’t even present in the safenet forums it appears.
If there exists no new plans that would be beneficial to investors then why are the btc just sitting there? What purpose does it have apart from making @seneca feel like a boss?
I assume everyone agrees that the decourm project, like most other companies exists to create a valuable product that rewards those who funded it.
100% of all those investors would want a buyback or similar given the situation, who would say no to that… It would enable those who want to exit the project, reduce the risk associated with the funds held and overall make investors less anxious.
So why is this not happening? I’m struggling to see any reasonable and logical argument. If @seneca was here posting amazing ideas and building upon other aspects of the project, then yes you could theoreticlally say that “perhaps its +ev to let @seneca continue on”, but that’s not the world we find ourself in.
The world we find ourself in, is one where @seneca is completely detached and assumably doing zero work on Decorum, with the promise that “once safenet api is done decorum can start”
The proposition that decorum will be valuable is decreasing every day as completing products and other decentralised forums are entering the market.
So what I want to know is where @seneca priorities are. Why is it +ev for investors to let him keep the crypto fortune? Why are we better off with him holding on to it than re distributing at least a part of it back to token holders?
Its not like this is a new concept, Ive seen this being done multiple times. even in instances where the projects are successful they may opt to do a buyback purely to add value for investors and demonstrate confidence and faith in the project.
If @seneca believes decorum will be a very valuable and great investment, then he as the CEO should actually be inclined to do a buyback as the PDC tokens in his view should be going up more than btc. If not then what is the point? If @seneca doesn’t believe that then it is by default a scam.
I`m 100% serious about taking legal action so if anyone could get hold of him please do. I know people throw “I’m going to sue” around on the internet but this is not one of these instances. I invested 10btc +200k maid I believe it was. Naturally for me to be able to put that much money within such a questionable project I´m capable and resourceful enough to file a lawsuit.
But its such a waste and everyone comes out of that losing, including myself. But at least we will have a clear path forward.
The absolute least that could be expected is for @seneca to loan the btc out or use it for liquidity mining and distribute the profits to investors. Had that been done day 1 we all would have made about 50% of our money back already. But here we are.
end rant
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The money with which we bought PDC are no longer ours and we cannot say what to do with them. We didn’t buy shares in a company, we bought a speculative token…
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You can praise Seneca all you like Dimitar. All Seneca has to do is at least show some involvement, an update, something?
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He is in the forum, you can see that he enters and did not run away with the money. There will be an update when we find out if the Safe network will work. If it doesn’t work, I’m sure he’ll give us our money back.
What’s to update @anon78865233? He said he’s waiting for the API. All us devs are in the same position. You can build so far, but then it’s potentially wasted effort.
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When you will have confidence that API will not been significantly changed?
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A lawsuit would do nothing. Seneca raised the funds based on developing Decorum when the Safe Network is ready to develop on. It still isn’t, so as long as he still plans to deliver Decorum once the network is ready, he’s not breaking any promises.
If the test network that is soon to be released looks promising enough for developers to start diving in, and there was still radio silence and no action, then I’d start to be concerned. But I expect Seneca will indeed spring into action as soon as the platform looks stable as he & Bzee previously did for the wallet / token issuance system & forum proof of concept when it seemed like the API might be stabilising. That was a false start, and I expect they don’t want to waste time on another one, so are waiting.
Saying that, I do agree that it would be nice to hear periodic updates that at least show that Seneca is monitoring the progress of the network, planning for actions once there is a stable API, or considering alternative courses of action.
I also see the sense in the funds being invested / lent and proceeds being distributed to token holders, but then Seneca basically becomes a fund manager & managing counterparty risks etc, which isn’t what he signed up to & could end up badly if something went wrong.
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It’s not just about changes - there is no API in the browser to build on ATM, and there never has been for the new Sequence based types, or permissions using Object Capabilities. We can guess, or try to figure it out from the code but I’ve tried and is hard, too hard for me.
Things are better if you want to build directly on Rust but there’s still a lot of uncertainty and gaps in important areas I think. This doesn’t prevent development based on assumptions, but that requires more effort and is risky because it might be wasted. Development is hard enough when you know what you’re building on and have good documentation explaining how to use it.
This is why myself and others are either building less, or building things that reduce this risk (e.g. Git Portal only assumes a filesystem in the browser API) or avoid it (e.g. vdash doesn’t use the API).
If there had been an API I either wouldn’t have started on Git Portal or if I had, might well have designed it very differently, so even now most of it might be wasted effort.
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Will we see stable api with this test network? Or only with fleming?
I have no idea. Hopefully it’ll become clear when things seem stable enough for developers to get stuck in making apps etc.
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This network, doubt it.
Will we have stable api for Fleming is the real question.
Unfortunately as they are still coding and adjusting large bits of the code base, and still will be adjusting in Fleming, I kinda doubt that also.
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I found the crowdsale addresses - PROJECT DECORUM - MAIDSAFE - CROWDSALE DISCUSSION THREAD
BTC - 1FBiEbdAtY7JCWNcPDyWVRJdeeQarTZDDn - 588.16225697 BTC https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/1FBiEbdAtY7JCWNcPDyWVRJdeeQarTZDDn
MAID - 141QSMGUpBZ4Zb6bpetXkXDGiVTDgyc1Ae - 1,089,919 MAID https://omniexplorer.info/search/141QSMGUpBZ4Zb6bpetXkXDGiVTDgyc1Ae
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There is approx 18 million dollars worth of btc funds held with Seneca IF Seneca never converted the btc to $ - this information I do not know since the btc has been moved to different addresses.
(if we take that 90% Savage´s number, so ~530 btc, plus a extra million maid tokens).
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IF this is true then i brings up many very interesting points to consider.
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Found the probable current BTC address - 515.51697782 BTC (~$17 million at current btc prices) Blockchain.com Explorer | BTC | ETH | BCH
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Going through how to btc have moved from the initial crowdfunding address to the probable current address it at least on the surface looks like Seneca has taken out fund every now and again (maybe for probable daily living expenses?) but as seeing there is no progress on the decorum project one wonders why is the money being spent?
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Looking forward to Seneca confirming the current account balances.
He’s really not under any obligation to do that.
Anyhow he’s replying, you’ll get a response soon maybe.
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What happybeing said is true. Nonetheless, @bzee and I have decided to start trying to build with Rust. This is not optimal and will be hard (I personally also have little experience with Rust, although @bzee has more), but we’ve been waiting for a proper API long enough. In the past we’ve seen our work broken by fundamental changes to the datatypes and API of the network, which is rather disheartening to experience. But we’ve gotten to the point that waiting for longer is becoming worse for our motivation and energy than that experience, so we’ve decided we prefer risking getting our work undone again.
This is true. I understand the frustration of @Panda though. I don’t want to make hard promises right now, but I’ll consider staging a PDC buy-back in the nearish future for those interested. Hopefully our renewed efforts with Rust will also have bolstered confidence by then.
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One more vote from me for the forced buy-back for those interested.
Glad to hear you guys are both ok and still a team. I enjoyed working with @bzee, he’s a good guy IMO, very capable and helped me several times when I got out of my depth.
I’ll be very interested in the approach you take with Rust, and if it involves WASM even moreso. I think Svelte + Rust/WASM is a dream team for a web app, but there are now more options than ever for building apps on Safe so this will be interesting.
I’m sure you’ll enjoy Rust @Seneca, and pick it up in no time. I’m still barely a beginner but believe it’s a good choice, not just for the language and it’s capabilities but the support and community around it. Best of luck!
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