I guess this is why I suggested creating a safecoin based altcoin for this purpose, a packetcoin perhaps. Then one could trade and send them. They could even be farmed the same way safecoins are farmed, just like bitcoins and namecoins are mined at the same time.
It becomes the password to your wallet file, not to your private key(s) in that wallet.
Therefore:
- Youād have to send the wallet file (with all the addresses and amounts you have it in)
- Youād have to create a new wallet and send BTC from our āmainā wallet to that wallet (probably with just one address) to be able to send wallet.dat to another person
(I still donāt understand why is it necessary to encrypt data inside of non-public SAFE data).
Letās say person A has addresses 1, 2 and 3, and person B has addresses 4 and 5.
Normally when A buys something from B, A pays from one of his addresses to one of Bās addresses, say 2->5.
In your approach, because the entire address is shared with B, A has to create a new account, say 3, transfer to it BTC from 2->3 and then share the private key with B. At this moment B has to instantly transfer all the contents out because both of them have access to funds parked at this location, so B will transfer from 3->5. Thatās 2 BTC transactions instead of 1, and thereās also at least one SAFE transaction involved.
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I would think so to, that it becomes the password to the wallet file. But the truth is, when you import that private key in another wallet. The Bitcoin network first sync, and you will still be asked to enter that password before you have access to that privatekey. I know because I pulled off this stunt before.
If itās possible that onecoin can do it, why would you add another coin? Bitcoin can basically do what Namecoin does, if you just add the feature.
The metaphor is more intented as a joke, but might apply since weāre talking about a:
COIN
Itās strange but the in coin exchange that I describe looks a lot like a Diffie-Hellman keyexchange.
For those who wonder why you would want a coin to be able to exchange value, without the need for an exchange. Itās because it would give the coin more value. Instead of talking about a 1 Maidsafecoin thatās now worth 0.029059, we would be talking about a coin that's worth 100. If this coin can serve as a key to my IOT house, I could send it to you and in exchange, I would get the money for letting you rent my house. If a new person now rents the house, i can transfer the key to them and they can start paying the agreed amount on a monthly basses. Just by being in possession of the coin, they can access the house and pay daily/monthly/annually.
The bigger picture here is, say that somebody (JP Morgan) 10 years from now starts an decentralized exchange in the future. Because people just love exchanges, people think we will always need exchanges. Letās say that JP Morgan holds all the privatekeys of all the people making use of itās state of the art exchange. Letās say that JP Morgan decides to get psycho on everyone and THEY JUST MARK KARPELES the heck out of everyone. Who is to blame, who can you approach on the decentralized internet? Letās say that this was JP Morganās BIG PLAN to take 1 Trillion dollars of the entire world. Hereās the real funny part, we donāt even know itās JP MORGAN and they even had the software written by an AI, how are we ever gonna even recover from sucha mess?
If we had a coin that can handle the exchange for us. We wouldenāt even have a problem like thisā¦ If Alice and Bob need Eve in the picture, weāll just end up getting screwed. Everything should be decentralized and P2P. Instead of decentralized and P3P. I hope that this is a P3Ptalk to get software developers exited about how important this really is.
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So now you are saying you would distribute wallet.dat, not a private key to a āloadedā bitcoin address? Okay.
In that case all my objections from before still stand: you still need to transfer money from address in one wallet to another address in this other wallet, itās just that now instead of a small private key youād distribute 100KB files.
- I already told you several times, you couldnāt pack anything inside of a SAFE coin. You would sell access to an account which (supposedly) has something valuable in its paid-for MaidSafe storage. Like folks who auction stuff to Storage Huntersā¦
- And even if that worked and that MaidSafe account had 1 MaidSafe coin of paid-for capacity, that bitcoin wallet.dat in it would would be worth nothing because noone would know whether it contains anything or not. The only way for them to verify that thereās any spendable amount of BTC in that file would be for you ti give them the file and the password, at which moment they naturally wouldnāt want to buy anything from you (because theyād have full access to the BTC already).
Iāll leave you guys to hash out the technical difficulties but Iāll say this much the guy has a point about the exchanges being a security vunerability. Remember what happened to Mt. Gox. Everyone used it and the whole network suffered when it fell. I think some way to exchange coins and generally information of value should be built into the system.
Just wondering but might this not be able to be written as an app instead of part of the core network? I mean basically itās modding what safecoins do. Iām just wondering if itās possible an APP could be written to carry out this functionality.
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@Blindsite2k, there are decentralized crypto-exchanges where the protocol takes the bid and offer in escrow when order is placed and settles it simultaneously if a match (or partial match, if the quantities differ) is made.
One of things Iāve been trying to explain is that if if a bitcoin private key is packaged inside of a private file owned by a MaidSafe account, itās laughable to expect that someone may want to buy that.
Say you prepare a bitcoin wallet with 1BTC in it, prepare a MaidSafe account, buy 1 SAFE and store wallet.dat on to the MaidSafe network. Then you advertise youāll selling an account with 1BTC and you price it 1 BTC + 1 SAFE (since thatās how much you spent on the MaidSafe network storage).
When am I supposed to pay you? When you give me the MaidSafe password and PIN or later? If later, when - when you give me the file (wallet.dat) or when we see thereās a file wallet.dat on the network? Or should I actually ask for a copy and try to open that wallet.dat to see if thereās anything in it?
Letās say youāre really nice (you let me take a look and itās ārealā) and Iām really stupid (so I pay).
First, I paid 1 SAFE too much (assuming I donāt need SAFE, I just wanted 1 BTC).
Second, I need to transfer this BTC to my own address, so I need to spend another transaction.
Third, I probably wasted 1 hour of my life on this activity (on the network youād never give me a copy of a real wallet.dat with 1 BTC on it to ātake a lookā).
Now, as soon as I pay you, you give a sign and your buddy sitting in the nearby Starbucks who has a copy of wallet.dat sends that 1 BTC to another address.
This problem has been solved and the solution is decentralized crypto-exchanges.
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In the Crypto-currency age exchanges and wallet provider are the new banks. All that decentralized means is that nobody is accountable anymore, if they take your money and runā¦ 
The real horror for newcomers, is that they wonāt even know what a public/private key isā¦ This is gonna be sucha trippy ride.
BTW donāt get me wrong about Safecoins, in my mind 1 Safecoin is worth 1 bar of gold.
Um what? I think youāre failing to understand what decentralization means. It means no one person is in control of everyoneās money which means there is no ātheyā to take your money and run.
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Yeh, it is strange - if the software is autonomous and decentralized P2P then there is not an owner of your actions within your instance of a console.
You import your private key to decipher and maneuver the value behind your address. You do this with an interpreting software and that software does not need to statically store your important information, only it needs to be able to transfer that value at your disposal.
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I think whoever created this decentralized exchange is in control of the exchange. Because software (computing environment) is constantly changing. What is to prevent someone of changing the code and just say that it was a security fix? Software will always be updated because the internet is a hostile environment. Who knows AIās might take over that task from humans, but who is checking the AIās?
Your exchange might work in this way that it protects consumers, but a thousand other exchanges might take completely different approaches. BTW keep up the good work if at a later stage you need donations count me in.
SuperNet sounds promising, for coin to coin communication.
The conclusion of this thought experiment, is the idea of locking a Bitcoin might not work, because:
- You are locking value in a safe
- The value is not divisble (unless you take it back to the Bitcoin network)
- We donāt know if a Safecoin could talk to the Bitcoin network and even do things like encrypt a privkey
- We donāt know which exchange value might be preferable
The good takeaway from this:
-
Maybe we might need something like this, but in the broader sense for the IOT.
-
Exchanges & wallet providers will become our new banks. Hereās your good example Coinbase.
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@19eddyjohn75 Glad to have your backup for sure 
The other day I had a quick conversation about a firm that uses multi signature, and it stores 1/3 signatures while the other two a person can store each one somewhere.
A design for types of signature storage I imagine now;
Itāll be quite straight forwawrd to implement software that is opensource trustless to perform all of these things, with sense. Leaving out middle man in the process of handling the transaction; though of course middlepeople will always exist probably - since there is an arbitrage opportunity for the one who takes the scarce food produce to the inner city for example is a middle person.
ā¦ and your solution to your lack of trust in decentralized platforms is to use another decentralized platform.
@dallyshalla
Maybe you should take a look at Bitpayās Copay for a multisig solution, itās opensource and it looks great.
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Itās open source code which anyone can audit. Whatās to stop someone from changing the code and saying itās just a security fix? Other people checking the code of said security fix.
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This is the time it took to do a TrueCrypt auditā¦ And some people say the TrueCrypt code was beautifully written.
The TrueCrypts Audit crowdfunding
Iām sorry to sound pessimistic, but with somethings time is just not on your sideā¦
You donāt sound pessimistic, but completely random.
Important Bitcoin 2.0 projects had their code audited for security (for example, Mastercoin* (in Jan 2014 they were looking for a security auditor) and Counterparty).
I donāt want to sound completely random here @janitor you just donāt seem to get the point. The point is, it doesnāt matter if the code is audited, by the time they are finished auditing people their 1 trillion dollar will be gone in my JP Morgan example. Time is the enemy of whoever audit code or depend on the result. That time can even be increased if somebody writes horrifically unreadable code.
In your example of Mastercoin and Counterparty, do you even know how much time past? Or if they even got audited? Moreover Mastercoin took the initiative to get their code audited for security. Can you name me a top five of cryptocurrency exchanges that got their code audited, initiated by the users? To be honest I donāt think you can even I canāt do that and these are centralized solutions. Imagine decentralized solutions (problems) with a great UX and in possession of people their private keys. Exchanges and wallet providers are the new banks, guess what happens when the old banks fall? Meet the new boss, Same as the old bossā¦
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I get your point. My point is, before you make random statements it might be a good idea to check how those things work.
If you did, youād see that the way that works is that orders are recorded on the blockchain (Bitcoin or other), as well as order matches and settlements. Someone would have to release an update that would make the exchange or protocol code send all (or some, but itās better to send all since itād get busted within a few hours) such orders to his account. Of course such theft would probably be rather useless because the exchange rate of coin would crash to zero.
Obviously such huge changes to the code would probably be noticed beforehand as in most cases changes first get deployed to a development or beta branch. Automated test scripts would also have to be rigged for such code to pass.
Weāre talking about transactions on a decentralized crypto-exchange such as those that some Bitcoin 2.0 projects have.
Besides Iām tired of doing your homework for you.
Itās ludicrous that youāre here spreading FUD against decentralized, open source software (iā¦e. by extension, MaidSafe).
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