And they really don’t have to debate it more than they are willing to. Just to say “We are responsible” would be relief to others.
I will be responsible if that helps I really don’t care. Apparently it was discussed in last nights stages but I am not sure but it probably won’t help either it will just keep going on.
If folk need to shout we should create a thread where they can vent away or at least make their point once and that may help whoever read that but it cannot just keep on going
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Well that’s noble but not very credible after all the “I don’t care about the money” 
Anyway, I have made my point and stop now. It’s not right for me to put any more pressure to anyone.
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It is done The Emissions Thread -aka lollipops
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Thanks for all the tremendous efforts Maidsafe, keep on trucking 
everyone and the latest (recording) from Bux is a 5***** listen, it really was a terrific chat about decentralised ai, data storage, ownership and a lot more.
Join our very own Bux with the team on this exciting session, where together they’ll be exploring key topics shaping the future of decentralised AI and storage!
— Autonomi (@WithAutonomi) March 26, 2025
Date: Thursday, March 27, 2025
Time: 7am PDT / 10am EDT / 3pm CET / 10pm HKT https://t.co/uQNOyz5I3I https://t.co/1i3lWiXFBm
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David, you make inflammatory accusations that misrepresent the community and now tell everyone to shut up while again ignoring the sincere and rational arguments made on the topic.
Emissions is not something that I’ve engaged in because I realise we aren’t listened to and responses tend to ignore the points being made. My comments are generally on how things are handled.
This shift began a year ago and has taken various forms - it’s not about this issue or that, but about relationship. Autonomi have squandered the healthy collaboration that got us this far together. The community didn’t change because of money or things being delayed. Anyone who has been here more than a couple of years surely knows that.
I see there’s little point pushing any particular issue so I say my piece when I feel it needs to be said, and then get on with code.
Several hours most days for the past year without a break because we were, we all thought heading rapidly to launch. That’s all up in the air again, but for now I continue, currently adding dweb RESTful APIs for Autonomi in the hope that we will one day have a functioning network, even if not the network for everyone I so wish it could be.
I don’t know why Autonomi have behaved the way they have towards the community, or why they continue in that vein, but it is particularly galling to watch you turning on us the way you have in recent weeks. Attacking, misrepresenting and blaming, while ignoring Autonomi’s role in all this.
Inflammatory false accusations only serves to make things worse, and I am very surprised to see you persisting in that.
This is why I stay away and no longer read most topics. I think the only way this will improve now is if the network begins to improve and we can all shift to building on and using it. It’s a real shame that if that finally begins to happen, this period will be a bitter backdrop and not a continuation of the sense of all being on the same page, together in all our differences, that existed for over a decade prior.
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You know, this is an interesting point to dwell on.
The forum has always been a pretty frank place for debate. It was never a place to talk lambos and moons etc. It has been a place of debate and honest exchanges.
Discord came in and there was a different atmosphere there. There were even suggestions of rewards for OGs helping newbies out. Implicitly, it’s like discord has been treated as a place to market the product. A place to build up hype and optimism.
However, I’m not sure whether that was ever an official strategy or one that the old forum folks felt aligned with. I feel some want to be just as straight and honest on Discord as they are on the forum. They don’t want to be seen as cheerleading and hyping, etc.
So, maybe that is something to consider. Perhaps it was expected that the community would happily play the role of marketeers on Discord too? Maybe that was taken for granted in fact?
I admit that I self censor on Discord for the above reasons. It feels like the forum is the place for more raw honesty. Even then, it can feel self destructive, if care is not taken.
I’m not sure how that is ‘fixed’ as such, but just writing my thoughts down. Maybe the intention of Discord as more of a marketing window could have been made clearer for those who don’t like to read between lines? Maybe we should always at least have the forum as a place to be frank too?
Food for thought.
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Yeah - what happened to that?
Kinda like the helpdesk/ticketing system that was promised to appear…
Something I should have made more noise about but didn’t cos it just seemed so bleedin obvious…
And now when people raise concerns on Discord and in here in an unstructured way, its taken as criticism - when most of it [c|sh]ould be dealt with via a ticket.
Its not as if there are no FOSS ticketing systems available and we don’t have experienced support peeps here already in the community…
I miss the @Bux style time estimates - they may not always have been 100% correct but at least it gave a feeling of this becoming real
If nobody dares to give a time estimate it’s not gonna be ‘soon’…
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Maybe we weren’t helpful enough? 
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@rusty.spork is helpful!
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I am personally feeling sad over this talk on emissions, even though it is really important, because it overshadows the work the team is doing in KAD, bug fixing, working on fixing uploading, and many other things.
The emissions are more about administrative things and not reflecting on the devs. Emissions is a huge (at this time) lever on promoting healthy nodes since shunning is effectively non-existent at this time (these are being worked on)
If that is indeed true then those people will welcome the emissions drop, as they are like us and wanting a working network with storing happening. And welcome a drop in emissions until uploads are working. Also they would UPGRADE their nodes.
This is not about how much we earn, but about a working properly network and maybe a touch of fairness. A fair suck of the sav, if you will. Being fair dinkum
The network is plagued with up to 90% (my estimation) of nodes that are on undersized servers in many states of versions, not always responding when they should and little to no shunning. Emissions are fuelling this because there is no requirement to provide more than a scrape of storage per node.
And I take some offence every time someone suggests this is about money when I say anything about emissions. I could care less about the ANT and personally have given away (gifted) more MAID to help people than I could ever expect to get off emissions.
The issue is not about whales as such, need to read it all, and you’ll see its about using emissions to fuel a unbalanced network and supporting faulty nodes without any significant shunning going on. So bad nodes keep growing with emissions fuelling it and just using the network as a mining ANT exercise.
Anyhow enough of my ranting, I’ve said so much about this, I just hope that the lever of emissions will be used wisely to encourage a healthy network and not a mining emissions exercise.
I am happy to move my nodes over to the dev test net and leave this network till uploads work.
Definitely, and hopefully Shu can take on board our comments about his comments and maybe get to understand the community’s concerns better as we get to understand his points of view better.
Yes if uploads were working *properly* then I doubt this would be an issue at all. I would add if shunning was also working as intended.
Its fairer to the new people wanting to join the network and think they are being compensated, even if its only a token amount (pun maybe intended)
And these people just mining emissions are not “playing by the rules” (LOL) but are just in it to suck off the network without a care in the world about the network, its health, or even storing a chunk.
And I Nth that (I am sure others have 3rd, 4th … already)
No way and they would be “outed” within their first or second post. It’d be totally unfair to them to even attempt it.
100% agree 
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Yes, I am not sure it can be fixed and maybe it’s how it goes really. I see @happybeing post above this and it’s pretty frank at least 
But perhaps it cannot be fixed if there is a constant need to pick on things in this way. We cannot have one way frankness and we cannot have constant messages about a single thing in every topic we have. Imagine folk finding the project and coming to this topic to see “what have they achieved this week”. I think the post shows progress and then the conversation falls into unrelated stuff that again goes to a single bloody minded subject that is just repeated over and over and then I am accused of some kind of inflammatory accusations when I am pointing out facts. At least I see them as facts, but I suppose folk could argue they are not facts but a false opinion I have.
I am pretty direct and to the point, I don’t tend to be personal, but that kind of stuff is personal and it’s just not helpful. I feel there is a desire to continually shove a dagger between the company (the company does include devs) and the community and that is also getting a bit tiring as well.
There is just no need for that kind of direct attack
That’s gonna hurt the team for sure. I know from internal chats I do have (not all that many as I don’t have the energy) that there is no hint of anything like that absolutely a no go area.
I know there was a hope that discord would bring in new folk with new energy to expand on the community, but in a faster more friendly banter type way, but that has not really worked as well as was thought.
I don’t know folks, it feels like a pretty low point if we are getting personal and making some of these statements, but if that’s how the community feel then I am not sure anything I can say will help, particularly if it’s seen as me accusing the community and inflaming them. It’s pretty much gone too far at that point.
Yes, it seems that the reasons for discord were maybe not conveyed as they should have been. I don’t know discord, it seems very fast and loose there with lots of graphic stuff, I prefer a longer form discussion, but I do feel that’s gone from here for many of the team and many of the community now.
Not sure @Traktion it is a bit of a mess for sure. Seems there are lots of hurt people around desperate to take something out on somebody and I don’t know how I can help with that to be honest.
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No David, with the greatest respect, there are a lot of hurt people (some feel more “hurt” than others) desperate to find some way to bring this project back on track.
It really really bothers me that all this griping - on both sides - is hardly conducive to your recovery. And Im pretty certain that had you been able to be present for all of the last year we would never have got to this stage.
And that is a real sore one - on all levels.
99.9% of the folk in this forum just want the network to perform.
I fully agree with @neo that it looks like a serious % of node-runners are only in it for the short term gains they can make. I also fully agree with @neo that the E-word is a financial tool and actually sod-all to do with getting a performant network - ie something actually worth marketing - up and running in the next 12 months.
If as you say, it matters so little then ditch the E-word completely for the next few months.
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No worries, I am out.
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That is matter of great regret.
I fully understand how frustrating and tiring this must be.
You will always have my respect.
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The token-talk channel is basically about that. It is separate from the main general-chat channel though. Maybe I’m over egging that one, but whipping up enthusiasm for new node runners can bleed into this. Maybe not a huge cause for concern though.
Edit: To add, I wouldn’t say the team is doing the shilling either. Just that there is a venue for it. I’ve also taken part in that discussion, so I can hardly talk! No offense to team intended and I should have been clearer. I’ve updated original message to make this clear.
I actually think Discord has worked out pretty well. Lots more of a positive buzz than in here!
I just think it split the community in some ways. Some folks were willing to support the new medium and others perhaps felt cynical. Maybe some felt displaced.
Anyway, I’ll put my amature psychiatrist hat back on its peg!
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Is it worth the mods cleaning up this topic a bit? It did end up spiraling.
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Can an IPv6 implementation of Autonomi, interoperate with the current IPv4..or would it be exclusive networks to each protocol?
If exclusive, could two concurrent Autonomi network products be a possibility?
IPv6 + Native Token would be a nice product alongside the IPv4 + Arbitrum offering.
Would be an incentive for end users to make IPv6 happen on their connections.
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No clue if its possible but its a nice idea.
Dunno if Autonomi would have the resources to pull it off though.
Something needs done anyway, the present shitiness cannot be allowed to continue. We sort it out sharpish or this project dies, along with our hopes dreams and in some cases pensions.
Then who knows how long it will take to get back up and sort out all the forks.
And some of them will be Trojans, set up to distract and divert us.
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