Get your money back on the ghost train you two 
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Lemme guess, Longer in the Tooth = Southside? What’s under the suds?
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Here’s tae ye and wha’s like ye
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Wishing you were here @dirvine he might listen to you!!
I’m trying to simmer him down to a roaring boil!!
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I think you’re a good person and you’ve shown at times an incredible level of self-awareness. But often, it feels like your comments come from an emotional place based on how you feel about the person/entity at issue, meaning that you are no longer objective. For instance:
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with Maidsafe/David, because you like them (who doesn’t and is here?), for you they can do no wrong. So you automatically jump to their defense at all time in all instance
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with Elon Musk, because you dislike him, you appear to never afford him the benefit of the doubt and automatically look at most news about him through a negative lens. (For the record, I don’t care either way about Musk).
How we feel about someone from an emotional perspective should not color our evaluation of their actions from a rational standpoint.
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I seem to remember share holders would receive a usb stick with safe tokens. The amount dependent on when you bought them. Is this still in the plan?
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The reason I like David/MaidSafe is as I’ve explained above - what they have said and done over eight years of my following them. I do indeed ‘defend’ them, mostly by pointing out facts versus assumptions. Where it comes to my judgements I’m happy to explain the basis for that as I’ve done in my replies to you.
One reason I respond to criticism of MaidSafe is to save them the effort and help them to focus on the project. I occasionally receive criticism for doing that 
but I think it’s worthwhile.
You see that as not objective, but when you think so you’re free to point out the errors in my arguments in those cases. People don’t generally do that though, instead they criticise me. Why? Because they’re responding emotionally based on their judgements of me or MaidSafe, which is what I think you’re doing here. You’re not pointing out any errors that back up your view that I’m being emotional and not objective. Similarly in the RFC discussion. I think some people don’t like me for whatever reason, and want to have a go from time to time. I’m sorry when that’s the case (not saying you) but I am what I am, though open to feedback as well.
The same applies with my criticisms of Musk as to my defending MaidSafe. Most things I’ve posted in that topic are public knowledge and hardly any of it has been contested. It’s mostly things he’s said or done, what his daughter’s doing etc. along with my attempts to refute what others see as his good points (such as his IMO meagre philanthropy). You are correct that I don’t think he’s a suitable person to wield such power and that I’m not impressed by him as a person, but that judgement is based on my experience of him, of what he has done and said over the years. So no, I don’t give him the benefit of the doubt whereas I do MaidSafe, both for… reasons!
Saying it’s because I dislike Musk ignores that I have my reasons for suspecting his words won’t match up with his deeds. It tries to make me out to be shallow and judgemental, and not objective. Whereas IMO I’m not easily fooled, and am good at judging character, when to trust and when not. IMO it’s important as a human to learn how to make such judgements over time because it saves pain in the long run.
Learning that has been at a cost at times - when I got it wrong - so when that happens I’ve looked carefully at why I got it wrong because I don’t like to make the same mistake twice. If David showed a lack of integrity I’d spot it immediately because he’s been so straight down the line for so long. When he gets things wrong he admits, apologises corrects. Musk?
What I find hard to understand is how people overlook those signs in Musk and others. Some people are much harder to judge because they aren’t so straight but not because they can’t be trusted, they’re maybe shy, or lack confidence, young, naive etc. Musk is none of those so I find it much easier. And I’m aware I could be wrong. Show me reason to reconsider and I will, but nobody has done that.
I’m human, mostly 
, so not perfect but I’m pretty good at being objective. You say you see self awareness in me, and I know I also have blind spots. I’m very willing to have these pointed out, but nobody in the Musk discussion for example has done so. They’ve just disagreed with my judgement and suggested that I’m biased, while not addressing the factual information in an objective way because they like him? I don’t know, but to me it looks as if the boot is on the other foot over there and I’m struggling to understand why it is so important to people who don’t even know him, to defend him. Like he needs saving from my ineffective, insignificant comments to a tiny audience while anything he says is broadcast world wide, and backed up by millions of cultish followers who eagerly attack anyone who disagrees with them.
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IMO Musk is what kids wanna be. Playfull entrepreneurs with meme culture and and strong opinions while saving the planet. But from someone mature he is making money using whatever is the most disraptive technology at the time!
one other thing poeple like about him is that he aims high and persists which is also a kid appealing thing
i was all in Musk and still like what he does but I will never forget the short video where he says each year that the robo taxi is a year away 
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I don’t doubt his appeal to some, what baffles me is those here who I don’t expect to be taken in by superficialities. You can be successful and get things done without being like Musk. Though many of those doing things which really help without the damage don’t have or cultivate such a profile or play up to a cultish following (amassing such wealth is damage IMO, but let’s not get into that!). David is one of the latter. He’s not achieved this yet and may not do so, but if he succeeds I expect he’ll be much more Tim Berners-Lee than Elon Musk.
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Perhaps the reason why you have never seen this same trait exhibited by Musk is because you have never looked.
Example 1.
When Tesla first started producing vehicles in their Fremont, CA plant Musk installed state-of-the-art, never-before used (to that extent) machinery to handle a large part of the assembly of the vehicles, relying much less on the human participation than other auto manufacturers. As the process became bogged down in the realistic demands of production, and after spending multiple nights sleeping on the factory floor himself to gauge the nature of the difficulties, Musk shifted some of the focus from automation to human intervention and Tesla’s manufacturing prowess increased at a rate that eventually led the team at Fremont to sustain a vehicle production rate that exceeded that of the previous occupants of the same factory, GM and Toyota.
Example 2.
https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/elon-musk-mistakes-too-many-mbas-factory-floor.html
Too many mistakes to list
“When Murray asked Musk to talk about his own mistakes, he said there were too many to list them all. Then (in a very Musk moment) he paused to wonder out loud if there was some useful way to classify them. Finally, he acknowledged that he’d made the same mistake he’d been advising others against making – he’d sometimes spent too much time on finance and in conference rooms, and those were the times he’d run into trouble.”
Example 3.
“If we are wrong, we are wrong. In this case, we were.”
Example 4.
“The biggest mistake, in general, I’ve made, is to put too much of a weighting on someone’s talent and not enough on their personality. And I’ve made that mistake several times. I think it actually matters whether somebody has a good heart, it really does. I’ve made the mistake of thinking that it’s sometimes just about the brain.”
https://www.inc.com/marcel-schwantes/in-a-few-words-elon-musk-admits-to-his-biggest-mistake-and-teaches-a-major-lesson-in-leadership.html
Example 5.
‘Elon Musk , CEO of the company, admitted that they have made “significant mistakes” in their Solar Roof project, such as delays and cost overruns in the installation of solar roofs .’
https://www.chron.com/business/article/Elon-Musk-admits-significant-mistakes-in-16132995.php
Example 6.
“# Elon Musk has 3 rules for managers: show why he’s wrong, ask for clarification, or execute the order.”
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Thanks. I don’t look, you’re right - I pick up bits and pieces over years and use that to form an opinion and that’s why I know I could be wrong and invite people to correct me.
Maybe I should have been more specific.
He admits to technical and business mistakes and that’s good. How does he do on the interpersonal do you think? That’s much harder and what matters when judging character - not acknowledging obvious technical mistakes would be a different class of stupid, and I’ve never accused him of that.
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Sorry, when you made reference to David and compared him to Musk, I did not realize you were talking about David’s interpersonal history. I’m happy to report that I am not privy to the actual, incontrovertible private details of either individual.
Interpersonal happens in public too you know.
@Southside called it a day and bought some white wine vinegar and heased back to the south side.
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Yes, of course, but the important things about that are the veracity, thoroughness, intent and constraints of the reporter and media form. Is it just Facebook, Twitter or Insta fodder? That’s much harder to gauge objectively than documentation of business history or official statements and trying to extract something about the leader’s character from an analysis of same.
David was easy to judge from when I began seeing him reply to questions on Reddit and then read his blog. Everything since has confirmed what I made of him then.
It’s the same with Musk, really. It’s taken longer because he’s not someone I follow as closely but I’ve seen him repeatedly reveal himself. His dealings with the diver cave rescue was a revealing nadir, but more recently he’s been lying and even breaking the law over the twitter acquisition. It’s a pattern and he’s consistent, another example is treatment of employees, also shilling cryptocurrency. I don’t keep a list, those are alarm bells to me that stood out and so stuck in my memory.
Now others have either missed those or don’t see them as a problem. I don’t know.
I notice and remember things like that because to me they’re significant. In years of observing far more of David’s output I’ve never once seen any of that. He’s not perfect, but he’s decent and trustworthy IMO. Same for Tim Berners-Lee. They are different classes of people, one I’ve learned I can trust and the other I steer clear of.
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I absolutely hate acting like I am defending Elon Musk because I don’t know him personally and am not qualified to defend his character. But I am prepared to say a person who is not fully informed should not be making judgments (your word) about individuals unless they do have substantial first-hand knowledge of the person. It is easy to be swayed by sensational headlines and incomplete snippets.
I would also like to add: The other two people mentioned in your last reply have the benefit of not having the worldwide celebrity status of Musk, mostly by being the world’s richest man but also because of his wide presence on Twitter (Yes, he probably brings on much of the vocal criticism himself by being so accessible). The resulting attention makes for a rather large target on his back and is very tempting for even amateur pot-shot artists. Thankfully, David and Berners-Lee have been spared those attacks, partly because of their comparatively limited public exposure.
I judge Musk on what he says and does. I don’t agree that it’s unfair to make judgements unless I know him personally. I’ve not met David either but have a good sense of him. I once had lunch with Tim but that’s not why I judge his character positively.
I’m sure you make such judgements in people you’ve not known personally. Who to vote for for example.
Why are you uncomfortable defending Musk? You’re only defending your view of him - we both know that. If you have a negative opinion why defend him? If positive, why are you uncomfortable defending him?
[I’ve run out of shrug emojis today so ]
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I do not. Voting is not an indication of a personal judgment, in fact that is a very spurious reason to vote for someone, imo. The reason you vote for a public person is because you think they will do a better job, once in office, than their opponent. Sometimes a politician’s public persona is objectionable even though he has done an admirable job in office. You, yourself, could probably cite some of these instances on a national or local scale.
Incredible we spend so much time talking about Musk on here, when there is so much else to dedicate precious headspace to.
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