Taking decentralized one step further... wireless?

Not completely positive if I’m tagging this in the correct category so please bear with me :slight_smile:

I can’t seem to find if there has been any discussion regarding the cross-over/integration with wireless distributed routing protocols?

I’ve been theorizing about a distributed internet for many years and so excited to have discovered this. I’m only an amateur enthusiast but it would seem to that the last remaining step is to undermine the very physical nature of the wired internet. In dense urban environments you could create freely accessible systems that require no telecom. Just simply connect to an ad-hoc mesh network and start using your app. Goodbye data plans?


This is something I have been pondering at too, although nothing significant has come up yet.


I actually discovered maidsafe because I began doing research into the feasibility of creating a distributed wireless internet with some crude combination of ad-hoc routing (like BATMAN WikiStart - Open-Mesh - Open Mesh) and distributed DNS (ala something like Namecoin).

The idea was to spawn it in urban environments with high density of wireless signals where it could be successful in providing the infrastructure for social network applications (messaging etc.) that are anonymous, always-on, and free to access for life. All you need is an AP - no more paying for internet.

Anyway I’m no an expert and would love to hear what some of the smart people working on this project think about this general idea etc.


@nkkarpov the category seems appropriate. It you search for meshnets you’ll find some discussions have taken place along these lines. It is indeed a logical and desirable direction.


@happybeing thanks for the tip, here’s a few of the threads I found (listed below).

I see a lot of arguments about how the “ultimate dream” is not possible due to bandwidth/latency essentially. Here are my thoughts…

  1. I’m not going to buy in to the idea that it will never be possible to overcome these challenges in the future. There is more and more research being done on all aspects whether it’s wireless tech, routing algorithms etc. I don’t think it’s that crazy to expect the advances in these fields to converge at some point.

  2. There are a subset of applications that simply don’t need that much bandwidth and/or are flexible with higher latencies. A basic messaging service is a great example! Messaging hasn’t always been as fast as it is today. And how can you complain about the price of FREE (remember when each SMS was $0.25?)

The relative success of projects like FireChat/OpenGarden is a great indicator that we are at least moving in this direction. I hate to be oh-so-cliché but all that really needs to happen is the ‘killer-app’ for the end consumer. What about local sharing? What about using this as digital storage tied to GPS coordinates? So you can literally have “digital items” scattered around… and this was freely accessible! The first free MMO game? I always thought Google’s Ingress game would be an awesome application for this.

This just needs way more public exposure. I always enjoy giving the example of walkie talkies, however technically inaccurate, to friends who have no idea what this is all about and what’s truly possible. When you buy a walkie talkie - it works as long as you don’t break it. Buy it for $100 one time and for the rest of your life you have the ability to communicate with no charge. It’s time we start thinking of “internet access” the exact same way.

Utopian - I know. But goddamn we gotta try!


This also might be fun

There are many more…


@19eddyjohn75 awesome!

If possible, could you please link some of the other related companies you have found here? Would love to have a central location for all these resources. Right now everything appears to be scattered.


An organization called Sudomesh is working on a community meshnet project based in Oakland and has compiled a list of various mesh projects on their wiki: Mesh/Other mesh projects - Sudo Room


Hi @nkkarpov

[There is pCell][1]

The serval project

Outernet thanks to @nathias

What would be neat, is if somehow we could get Maidsafe installed on all these hardwares, if possible.
[1]: Artemis | What is pCell?


@ioptio @19eddyjohn75 thank you for contributing these wonderful links!

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iVi on Indiegogo and ends December 16, 2014

This looks like an interesting device, it utilizes the B.A.T.M.A.N. advanced routing protocol, which in my research is the best mesh routing algo. The guys that wrote B.A.T.M.A.N. hacked the Linux kernel to achieve L2 routing, which could be an interesting way to go for SAFE.

So this might the closest thing to a SAFEbox going around.

Mesh Network: iVi supports advanced mesh networks for file-sharing between all units in range (see Koch antenna). Forming large, private networks. Suitable for most wireless devices, including computers, smartphones, laptops, tablets, and PSP/NDS.

iVi supports two types of meshnet protocols: B.A.T.M.A.N.-adv and cjdns

  • The first through software. B.A.T.M.A.N-adv runs on a Layer2
    protocol, and eliminates issues associated with NAT from node to
  • The second is implemented via hardware (random number generator) to
    create IPv6 addresses, thereby off-loading the processing from the
    AR9331 chipset.


Wireless Meshnets: Building the Next Version of the Web” - HOPE 2014

This panel features discussion and debate about the exciting current state of wireless meshnet technology, with a particular focus on how to build and join local urban wireless networks separate from the traditional Internet. A short tutorial of the project as well as how to connect to a local meshnet – including an overview of the necessary open hardware and software required – is provided.

After the tutorial, a discussion will occur regarding the scope and impact of the global meshnet project. Technology covered included the CJDNS project, Hyperboria, installing the Meshberry image on a Raspberry Pi device, configuring Ubiquiti NanoStation M5 routers featuring the OpenWrt software, and other relevant topics. Whether you’re a new user or an enthusiast, this is a great place to learn more about the technology driving new free and secure private networks.

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I just read about this on Popsci.

If this mesh network + MaidSafe concept seems viable, might it eventually be worthwhile to build an incentive structure into MaidSafe its self, so that in the same way people will be incentivised with SafeCoin to provide data, bandwidth & processing, people could be incentivised to provide networking infrastructure?

For example, the network could provide SafeCoin incentives for network infrastructure in such a way that being the first to reach new areas or improve weak links is rewarded, and when there is plenty of infrastructure, rewards for provision can reduce.

It would need a lot of thought, and of course if people simply use existing ISPs etc it may be unnecessary, but the possibility of utilising SafeCoin to incentivise the development of a high quality mesh network in the same way as computing resources seems like an interesting concept.


This project seems to have vanished…it was touting an incentivization model for mesh


How do we take away the narrative without out something like Libernet. It seems like SAFE was meant to prioritize bandwidth as one of the dimensions to earn SAFE coin. Without a fully end user owned and controlled network we will be stuck with for instance centralized energy and the lame narratives. For instance, oil is inherently unreliable. Its not that its not a great battery or even that its limited (I think peak oil may well be a myth because it may not be fossil fuel) but rather that its choke point energy given to centralized control and control that will be in the hands of a cabal. Its another useless and unnecessary toll road to support corporate welfare royalty. Its the kind of infrastructure that keeps us enslaved. The alternatives are getting the requisite storage tech and are no longer intermittent, but are decentralized. How will ever act on this liberation with sponsored networks and media? Until we own the network its paying intermediaries that exist to deceive us.

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I love all the ideas here…

We are creating the future!!

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On Libernet in Nov David Irvine apparently posted in the libernet thread

“Spoke with them briefly a while back, we should get in touch again during testnet3, I am working in routing again and with crux coming along this kind of environment should be pluggable into SAFE, a win all around. If the librenet team wish they could be part of the core rewards I would imagine as this is certainly a core part. It absolutely needs to be cross platform though as we have this simple to use mentality so anyone should be able to click and use.”

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nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more


Yes @nkkarpov – here’s one thread I started a few months ago, based on Apple’s new mesh networking app FireChat: FireChat is like a cheap mobile version of MaidSafe