SAFE broadcast system

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A relatively simple request. Design some embedded news feed or broadcast system. It would be very useful if people could be informed of updates, network development status, RFC’s, and general SAFE related information in the app Launcher much in the same way I2P does it.

This benefits SAFE as a whole. The RFC’s would be seen by all on the network which in turn could mean more minds working on solutions, users would be kept informed of the direction development of SAFE is taking without having to sift through the forum, and updates would likely be applied faster improving overall network stability. Updating this way would be preferable IMO. It would be public data provided by the team with little chance of tampering. Win win!? :smile:

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Sound like a great idea Tonda!

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Thanks! I just hope @dirvine et al feel the same way. Something like this could help keep us on the pulse of the network without having to remember to check forums or blogs. It’s good practice, but most of us juggle so many things daily that it would be nice to have quick status updates we can skim through and possibly wet our appetites for further investigation. :slightly_smiling:

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We can all see the value of this, and there was an effort to create a SAFEnetwork Newsletter to fill this need. It ran a few issues, but nobody has enough time to make it happen regularly, and not enough people from the community were willing to pick stories for it.

It requires effort, regular sustained effort, and that’s why it isn’t happening.

The Devs have set aside time to do a regular weekly update for us and are trying to find time to create a roadmap that also reflects changes in a more immediate and visible way, but as always they have to focus on priorities - which as we know, right now is the MVP.

Anyone in the community could provide this service - and as I said - there is already a newsletter set up and working. So it just needs someone who is willing to put the work into filtering and curating the content on a regular basis - more work than it sounds I can assure you. I think it is very unlikely that MaidSafe can spare the time do this at the moment, so it is up to the community.

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You put out updates and what not on the forum and other sources. Couldn’t you write a script or something, or even manually copy/paste or even just link to said articles in the launcher news article? Have something like a maidsafe version of IFTT (If This Then That)?

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I got the impression that @Tonda meant a broadcast system on the SAFE Network.

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We already have RSS/Atom for this. It could be stored as structured data (i.e. mutable, because updates), referencing immutable news article documents. Problem solved :kissing_cat:

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Now to embedded in the launcher for all to see by default. :relaxed:

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This sounds like spam that I don’t want interrupting me via the launcher.

This sounds like something that a group of people have control over - something in the Network that is not autonomous.

Cannot public data provided by the team with little chance of tampering be provided in a separate location on the Network?

Should these items (RFCs, “general info”, development statuses) be pushed to every user of the Network, or those who voluntarily sign up for the “mailing list”?

Let’s look at some successful systems (not I2P) that abstain from offering such a system

  • Mozilla
  • W3C
  • Linux

This is a well-intentioned but ultimately foolhardy idea.

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I don’t know. This information will come from the creators of the network itself. The first few iterations will come from them no? Spam and unproductive RFC submissions will be regulated by the team I’m almost sure.

Control will be inevitably passed to us when maturity is achieved. This proposal just makes the baby steps easier to take.

Don’t be a dick. You know this is possible. Quickly feeding the greater public remains my goal.[quote=“smacz, post:9, topic:7333”]

Let’s look at some successful systems (not I2P) that abstain from offering such a system

Mozilla
W3C
Linux
[/quote]

These systems from my understanding did not have the luxury of tamper resistant distributed storage systems like SAFE. Our beloved SAFE ensures that what wasn’t then, is now possible. If among the users, a large group modification quorum is used, then internal sabotage becomes even less likely.

Thank you for coming back. Without you I had to explains technical shit. Now I can go back to my CO2 bag. :grimacing:

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My thoughts exactly. I’m sure a news reader app would be welcome. An app like that may have the “official” feed selected by default, for convenience.

(In quotes, because I’m not sure for how long will the concept of “officiality” make sense in something truly distributed and democratic.)

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Actually, the more I think about this, here is a great idea for:

Combine that with @Tim87’s suggestion for a news reader, and you can get updates through the launcher - sent to whatever application you’re currently in (or even straight to desktop) - and choose to subscribe to the “official” release/update/bug tracker feed - as well as any others that you are interested in.

Isn’t the Network all about individual choice anyways? No need to send unsolicited messages, that’s just rude!

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Yay! :grinning:

My intent is to use this method to speed early development and reduce the severity of the query bombardment that will occur during testing. I guess I could’ve been more clear, but don’t you find this idea useful? I’m sure I’m not the first to think of it.

Again, I’m glad you’'re back. I had to explain about packets, data, and stuff. :weary:

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To clarify for future reference, it would be more accurate to amend the quote as follows:

[with the ability to create addons for the launcher] you can [create an addon to] get updates through the launcher - sent to whatever application you’re currently in

certainly something that I believe is worth pursuing.

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I’m happy for the future, but let’s deal with now.

Embedded broadcasts during early system testing and development yay or nay?

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Those interested in development will seek out development opportunities.

Users during early system testing (early adopters) will be savvy enough to stay on top of updates, and request support/file bug reports via the appropriate channels.

There is no need to dumb it down for the early adopters. So nay.

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LOL! That’s optimistic! Are you accounting for the curious grandma!? You seriously believe this will not help? :frowning:

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Nana ain’t an early adopter of maidsafe. Hell, she’s still trying navigate to her facebook wall. (Literally came home from work yesterday and had to do that for her)

No, this is for early adopters - as you stated. The tech community who hear about, research, download, install, get up and running, and create their first safesite in the early stages of this network will be well acquainted with the accustomed support forum/bug ticketing system. Targeting these types of people with a broadcast system would be redundant.

Also, there is virtually no modularity of the broadcast system, whereas a news feed can be anything. Customizable and extensible.

You also seem to be laboring under the assumption that there will only be one version of the Launcher. I disagree. While for now there is only one launcher, I foresee launchers being diverse much as web browsers are - each with their own abilities and quirks.

Lastly, I do believe that there is a use-case for a update-notification system. However, that system would be much more pertinent to farmers and the farming processes that users are running. Those are much more sensitive to updates than the launcher would be - for many of the same reasons as bitcoin miners need to stay on top of updates.

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Learning about these technologies is progressive, assuming no gray area exists is unwise.

Have you not witnessed the questions and confusion of many of these forum members. Most have the capacity to follow participation instructions but lack the patience to read through dense threads or wiki’s. They come here expecting clear and succinct answers to major problems already acknowledged.

Having a small news feed that is globally broadcasted would help lessen the load for us who work to help solve user issues.

I talk about now. During the very early stages. :weary:

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Here’s the crux of the matter: I fail to discern how an update/broadcast system would alleviate such occurrences - and not for lack of understanding your arguments. Rather for considering and refuting your arguments. A mailing list would be the nearest approximation of a system similar to your proposed one to lessen the frequency of these posts, but I do not believe that you envision broadcasting an entire mailing list throughout the Network. Surely not.

This “posting questions to known hangups” is a familiar issue with FOSS enthusiasts. Standard practice (and trust me, many systems have been tried and tested) is to put it in a repository to be searched - or linked to by experienced members of the community (such as yourself) in answer to such questions in a forum or mailing list type system.

No, what you are talking about is a news feed full of update announcements, developments in development (<- like what I did there???), and other news.

News is not support. Support is a two-way street. Broadcasts (of this sort) are one-way, and not suited for support.

Forums and mailing list type support also have the added benefit of being collaborative, editable and searchable. All of which this “broadcast system” would be without.

Also, what happens when I don’t log in for weeks? Well, it’s not done via mpid_messaging so it would have to find another way to live on the Network while I’m offline. And when I do logon, will I need to view those before I’m able to log into the Network? If not, what’s the use of them to warning me about the Network changes?

< smacz-being-a-dick > So once again: nay. If you would like to argue specific points of your proposal instead of asserting baseless conclusions, I would be all ears (or…well…eyes). Here are some that we’ve gone through:

  • Is not modular (only allows “official” updates - no other entity could utlize the protocol)
  • Is unsolicited
  • Can feasibly be set up on the network separately and interactively
  • We already have mpid_messaging that can handle offline notifications and messages
  • does not offer the tech-savvy early adopters the benefits that you claim it does (no matter how many times you insist the contrary)
  • does not take into account future variations on launcher
  • does not notify the people who need update alerts the most - farmers
  • does not offer support ability for people in the community with questions

Basically you just created something for my Nana - who isn’t an early adopter. Here’s a thought: design the Network (in the early stages) for the people who are actually going to use it. < \ok-i’m-done >

To your credit, it is something that I considered earlier. I didn’t make a post about it because I dismissed it in deference to the more thought-out “RSS/Atom news feed”-like system as @Tim87 mentioned. Now what might be effective is to distribute the launcher with a news feed system addon inside of the Launcher with the “official” channel pre-loaded. Something to think about.