Router & Network for the rest of us

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Now that we’re solidly in beta and probably about to get a mad influx of new people and their machines, I thought it would be good to have a simple and straightforward guide to accommodate nodes on everyday machines. I think the spirit of the project calls for small #'s of nodes on huge #'s of machines and I sincerely doubt the vast majority of participants will be willing to go through what I see in the beta chats. I know the masterminds understand and are working towards a 10-click GUI set-it-and-forget-it launchpad, but I suspect the biggest hangup for most will be their router.
I’d be willing to bet that most people will be using ISP-provided gateways. Which begs the question then:
what is the most simple arrangement for efficient and effective node operation?
(ie. What can I (average JoeTimBob, or my Mom) do to make sure this node software thingy works (ie. runs 10 nodes) consistently without me having to do anything with it and earns a few nanos every month?)

But then, given the nature of the project, I’m thinking there will also be a lot of us in Linuxlandia with our own gateway, not quite ready yet for the Advanced Router Setup thread, but daring and brave and adventurous enough to forward some ports, set static IP’s, dynamicize our DNS, modify some .config files and do other things to our machines that would make normal people squeemish. Ah yes, the thrill seekers.
So for those of us not scared of CLI, but not necessarily super-savvy in the networking department, what’s the ideal setup with modest equipment and BW for running, say, 20-50 nodes?
Specific questions for me:
Is port forwarding better than --home-network? uPnP better still? without creating security issues?
Is a static IP advantageous ?
Or dynamic DNS?
Is there a human-accessible remedy for NAT limitations? Can I make a swap file/partition for my router to use??

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Basically the network is designed for the whole world to use.

It is also designed that as many of the users that want to can run node(s)

It is not designed for people to be running huge numbers of nodes (aka home node farms)

Now this is not to say that with some ‘engineering’ it is not possible to run a lot of nodes from home, just that the design is not for that.

My first recommendation to new people is to not be expecting to install a money (token) making machine.

Second recommendation is to view this as being part of the internet protecting your own privacy and enabling them to be in control of their privacy.

Third recommendation leading on from the second recommendation is that they can run a few nodes and the network will reward them with tokens in compensation for their supply of spare resources. AKA Putting their spare resources to good use and receive some tokens for their generosity.

THEN and only then I would ask what they have and suggest the best way to do it.

static IP - unneeded and no advantage. Too much trouble for the as yet unnoticeable difference

DNS - not used by autonomi except to access the web to download the installation file(s)

Bandwidth - no need to change since using spare resources. May limit their count of nodes but typically not by much since their router will be the bottleneck. If their bandwidth is extremely bad then I’d say to them it is not for them until their internet improves. Maybe just run a node on their phone only

Router - do not change. This network is for spare resources and most if not all routers will allow at least 5 nodes. Rule of thumb is spare resources.

While port forwarding is better than --home-network the option for upnp is easier (and often safer due to ease of mistakes) than port forwarding and better than home-network. The launcher will on release be able to successfully choose this for the user

Overriding rule is this is for spare resources of the world’s population. To suggest any more than what they have is to exclude so many. Why make people change to suit Autonomi when great pains are being made to make it usable on people’s current system

Now if someone wants to do more then that is a discussion you are seeking me thinks, but that is not for average Joe Tim Bob Mary etc, which you say this is for.

The thinking has been skewed during beta from what the network is being designed for and great pains made to ensure it is designed for average person to click the “red button” to install and have running their nodes, or using the client side of Autonomi. Apps will be major in utilising the client side

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Totally agree up and down, and thanks for your ever down-to-earth, clear and concise response. 100% on point. It’s hard to not get caught up in the vibe of beta, i have to keep reminding myself of what it’s really about. And I surely do not want to suggest to anyone that they would need anything other that what they already have.

And if one is interested enough in their privacy, has enough knowledge to understand the playing field, and is lucky enough to be pitched with an opportunity to join and make use of Autonomi to regain some control of their privacy, I would expect them to be inclined to engage more deeply than “just push the red button and you’re all set.”
Yes, I do want the first part for the everyday user/nodester. And yes, I do seek the discussion about doing more.

This is getting at it. I’m not knowledgeable enough to really understand the depth of the consequences of UPnP vs port forward, but I take Autonomi’s lead (or the sound advice of certain posters) as really good starting point to learn from. Partly to work out why my nodes aren’t earning and partly to build my home network in sync with what I see as the future of privacy on the web.
And I was fishing for a link to “good resource for learning about/setting up home network without working in it for 10 years or getting COMP TIA certified.” :wink:

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UPNP is automated port forwarding, nothing more. Aplicantion sends to the router “hey, I want this port open and forwarded to me” and router either ignores it or sets the temporary port forwarding rule depending on router config.

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Stuff like this would be useful to collect and have altogether. I didn’t know this, or at least have forgotten and will forget again but it is very useful to know when you need it. Perhaps even the --help for the Autonomi apps could use a bit of guidance around these areas.

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Oh …what a way to explain the mission and vision of the Autonomi network… The beta and its reward program has clouded what Autonomi is really meant for, atleast for me… got carried away like it was money making machine… mmmmm…

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Beta is doing what it needs to do. It is testing the extremes from people running a few nodes to thousands

running from home and VPS

Running in multiple offices on their servers (by permission since its the business owner doing it)

Although yes it did make people competitive and that is good in one sense because the network has 60,000 nodes with just 2 waves

While what I say is correct it is the longer term view once adoption is well on its way, the short term between beta and then is one where it will be those on the bleeding edge of this environment and understandably there will be some who will run a lot of nodes because they can. Some like the business owner has a lot of spare resources.

And we need that in the early phase of the network, but mostly these are those with enough knowledge or drive to do the extra mile to achieve this.

But it’ll be at the end of beta that we will have a much better handle of what to tell new people, from the average person (over 99%) to the very motivated ones (under 0.5%)

But because this is a global community project to bring affordable network to the masses it by definition cannot be a money machine otherwise the poor end up funnelling their money to those who have. Of course some will make a lot from their holdings and ability to run a lot of nodes, many will make a good sum because they have more ability, and most will be happy they are running nodes to make some monies.

How much will 5 or 10 nodes make in 5 years, well I doubt anyone can say for sure, and it will be better than leaving that spare resource doing nothing. But the people running them will be happy they did.

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semi unrelated sidenote: I am positively SHOCKED at the amount of work a lot of non-technical people are willing to put in to get this thing working. It’s a beautiful thing to see.

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Yes, all of that. And I think people trying to make money from running nodes are setting themselves up for disappointment.

I think the economic value to people of running nodes would be that they get tokens which can be used to store stuff they don’t want to lose or as a backup target instead of things like BackBlaze or just using multiple USB drives. So you want to store some data so you provide some space to the network and use the resulting nanos to store your stuff on the network.

Also, that tokens can eventually be used for other services on the network that will be written.

Also, support projects and organisations they believe in.

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i like that description, sounds so much simpler than what i’ve been reading, mostly cuz there are stern warnings about UPnP. and this is strictly a router function, yes? (disregarding for now shtuff like pfsense and other constructs) so can this auto port forward be limited to strictly A-mi, does it use a set port or range? how does it NOT let any malicious player from taking advantage?
and that part about “either the router ignores is or sets the temp forward rule…” wtf, do i have to soothe my router and make sure it(she) is in a good mood so my app gets it;s request not just ignored??

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There is usually on/off switch for UPNP in router config.

UPNP itself is fine, but if you have malfunctioning or infected device in your network, it can make the situation worse.

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i know its way more involved, but it seems like UPnP is just easier, like Neo said, but no substantial difference for the purposes of running nodes and eventually as client?
i can dig that. i just actually removed the port forwarding from ISP router (discovered that optimum released a shiny new GUI page just for this) to see if --home-network might help my nodes earn.
i don’t think it changed much, although vdash is showing 1 quote and 3 records which i haven’t seen in 3 weeks.
i’m gonna set up this TP Link AX21 router and set port forwarding and see how that works. thanks for your input

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If you have given out a quote that means you are receiving unsolicited requests.

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Thanks for starting this thread. I will likely fall into the category of an “intermediate” user once things shake out. Setting up a special hi-performance router one command at a time is not my cup of tea. I mean I could do it, but the time I would need to invest doesn’t fit into my life or my stress level right now. On the other hand I would be interested in maxing out a mid-range PC and running the largest number of nodes. If that involves tweaking router settings or typing in a few commands that’s more like fun tinkering. It’s more about contributing resources to the network and learning about it than earning nanos. Eventually I assume what I am looking for will end up in a GUI, but until then I will watch the forums. So much to learn!