[quote=“Ghaunt, post:116, topic:4235”]
The dns system, anyone can implement a new one in the safe network and have it’s one rule set. The current one is the default one and can easily be superseded be a custom one. It can have multiple dns system … People will adopt the one where the site they seek is the more relevant one.[/quote]
Same argument applies to the existing internet, right? Just compile a custom DNS into Firefox and off you go! Tune your Linux PC to use an alternative DNS and voi la!
Yet it does not happen. Why? Because once you do this nothing works! No websites, no OS updates, no Firefox updates, no email, no antivirus update, nothing! You see? Start developing SAFE with one global DNS and you will not ever be able to get rid of it!
i’m pretty sure you are right here
This is pretty much my opinion too and that is why I would like it to be a better dns-system than it is right now in the internet …
Ok let’s use some dark paint.
Some rich and radical christian fundamentalists start bidding 1 SC more for every address they find having something to do with any other religion than theirs; trying to censor the SafeNetwork and free it from these false religions. Is that a problem …? What should the poor monks in nepal do about them being always Nr2 (or even kicked out of the name system) …?
(reopening the website using different name doesn’t really work because opening website: 1SC, hijacking: 2SC … and with bidding more for it in advance things even get worse …)
or another scenario:
the chinese gouvernment searches for unwanted content in the safe network and then creates 7386 websites with the same name and pays similar amouts of SCs for them making it close to impossible to find the original website - effectively censoring unwanted content
Question: assuming that we’re able to use whatever type of system for a DNS on top of whatever the native DNS system ends up being, why not just keep it simple and have the native “bare metal” dns be first come, first served, with the understanding that the web devs can just have their domain name on the bare metal dns be a long random set of numbers and letters and have a higher level DNS of the web dev’s choosing that lets the web devs use the domain name they actually want to use while redirecting back to the web dev’s respective bare metal DNS’s domain name?
I doubt there is much impeding anybody from creating their own naming system on SAFE…
Most likely if you leave a vacuum with trade name anarchy, somebody will build a centralized system for DNS or namecoin within SAFE, so that I can go to Amazon.com and actually reach amazon rather than quick click’n squatter Bob…
They don’t need anyone’s permission - just a bit of engineering…
You could also tie this into search engine style of thing.
It has been a long time now that non-technical people see the net as google. That is whatever they want is found through Google search. Even my son who knows a thing or two will tell me to google something and pick the one with such-n-such description. He doesn’t even remember the domain name.
My thought is that this concept has to be factored into @Seneca proposal.
How many people will simple search for their web site until they book mark it. The “long” version is never lost even if you lose the short version.
Surely browsers can have an option that if you go to “goodiegoodieyumyum” and it pointed to “goodiegoodieyumyum123456789” today, then if you goto “goodiegoodieyumyum” tomorrow and it pointed to a lolly site tomorrow then the browser warns you before going there. Many browsers already have a “bad site” checking feature that warns you,
So this would use your history (if enabled obviously) to check if the convenient name (short name) has changed on you.
Remember that you are not losing your site’s actual name, just the short convenient name.
[quote=“neverending_manga, post:123, topic:4235”]have the native “bare metal” dns be first come, first served… can … have … domain name on the bare metal dns be a long random set of numbers and letters
[/quote]
MaidSafe could use hashcode of the website public key as “bare metal” domain name: 6sgjmi53igmg7fm7.onion (we also used terms “binary” “complex” and “raw address” for this)
[quote=“neverending_manga, post:123, topic:4235”]
and have a higher level DNS of the web dev’s choosing that lets the web devs use the domain name they actually want to use[/quote]
When user types amazon.safe, how does that get resolved to 6sgjmi53igmg7fm7.onion? That’s what 120+ posts were about.
yes of course - i just didn’t think about it as real public and private namespaces … changes the view a little bit
maybe this needs a little bit to get sorted in my head … users could name websites … not the owners … if 99% of people call it amazon - it is amazon … and if I like to call myself riddim and the rest of the world refers to me as ruler-of-the-world my website would be called ruler-of-the-world even if i wanted to call it riddim …
Not sure what exactly you mean here but both the long and short are public names.
Private to me is simply your private data and its datamaps. No need for name,
Also forget “domain” this is more of a flat naming space in SAFE. I am sure there will be plenty of similarities to domain and sub-domain methodology. no TLD as such and any subdivision of a name (eg sales.company) would be a mapping to a directory rather than a separate “server” handling that (if sales.company is allowed)
Okay, my lack of understanding could easily be the issue here, but wouldn’t the implementation of my blurtout be 6sgjmi53igmg7fm7.onion goes to 4398yqrwkjnb4uy4rt34 by the native DNS as established through a first come, first served system, and then a another non-native DNS would handle the conversion from 4398yqrwkjnb4uy4rt34 to amazon.safe by whatever means it finds appropriate that the market will bear. If my lack of understanding of the topic is making me miss a huge problem, my apologies.
@neverending_manga, cut out one DNS - you don’t need 2. Make public/private keypair. Make a website.tar.gz. Sign it with private key. Upload to MaidSafe telling it what your public key is. MaidSafe verfies the signature and uses the hash of your public key as the “bare metal” address. Via this “bare metal” address your users can download website.tar.gz. See? No DNS yet. You only need DNS if you want users to type manga.safe and get your website.tar.gz But even then we could do without DNS if users just google up your bare metal address and bookmark it.
Oh sorry - uhm - i’m referring to … i think it was GnuNet
If I remember correctly they pretty much say: Oh all this domain name stuff is awful - just forget about it - every site has its public key and that is only important thing cause that directs you to the actual website and it is immutable + you don’t get to decide what you get…
and seriously - as you mentioned - nobody thinks “hey i need a new bike - let’s try bikesheaven.com or bikes.com they will have my next bike at a reasonable price” - everybody uses google so public names don’t matter that much …
… so - and now comes the interesting part: because you don’t want to remember 6sgjmi53igmg7fm7.onion every user names sites as he wants that is the private namespace … so you just type: amazon and hit enter when you want to go to 6sgjmi53igmg7fm7.onion … you can share your private namespace with friends and you can use their short links too …
because of this not the owner decides how his site gets called but the users decide how they refer to it
I believe this is called a Petname System. Or a variant thereof. Very reflective of nature and the natural world.
Each name set consists of three elements:
A key that is global and securely unique (but not necessarily memorable)
A nickname that is global and memorable (but not at all unique)
A petname that is securely unique and memorable (but private, not global)
EDIT: Applied to (a slightly adapted version of) @Seneca 's proposal, it eliminates squatters, prevents hostile takeovers, mitigates phishing, and solves Zooko’s triangle.
And let’s not miss the beneficial effect, bit in monetary and marketing sense, of having China’s government for a customer!
Someone said once SAFE Network starts using DNS it will never be able to go off it. Another arbitrary statement. Now this topic probably has more than 50 of them.
But because of that DNS hate I thought to ask if SAFE browser will resolve Internet DNS or not?
If it will, that makes my case for proper standards based resolution stronger.
If it won’t, it’s going to suck.
@Seneca’s method is ingenious but it is very very dangerous as it makes it very easy for scammers to clone sites. there will be victims and the overall trust in the network may go down @happybeing is right when he speaks of make it accesible for everyone. limitations are always a good choice as they keep a balance between the vaults
i would personally go for the hash names like ‘safe:873hdh87hwddih3eun’ because they are unique and they are the same for everybody, without wealth discrimination. considering this, i would suggest a little embellishment: a public chainladder in which the sites are registered by the date. so today, we have 2304 sites registered. that means instead of actual hash, we can tell people to access site number 2304 from 05.09.2015
I don’t see what the issue is. There are tons of people with the same name in the phone book but we don’t confuse them because they have different phone numbers. Why is this so different? Just create public key recognition easier. Couldn’t you say generate a unique image, for instance a fractal or something like that, using the public key for easy recognition and reference. QR codes are mainly for computers to scan. We need an image that a human could easily look at and recognize, especially in comparisan with a web address. If we have www.coolsite.safe with ABC public key and another www.coolsite.safe with XYZ public key you need an easy quick way to tell the public keys apart in a matter of seconds without having to look at the whole string and compare them character by character. If you’re reading a dozen or so public keys you want something easy you can scan, ie a bunch of pictures.
