Spreading incorrect information is bad anyway.
However, it is better, of course, if it is marked as unreliable.
What I meant mostly is that students can remember wrong information, then try to use it and fail consequently. This is what “problem” consists of.
I think too that education have problems.
School should teach not only how to remember information, but also how to find and verify it. Basically, it should teach how to learn.
Second problem is somewhat related to the first one: information in school is highly biased, to the point of being just incorrect. Often it happens with topics, related to politics or culture. And I think it may be the reason why students are not teached how to verify information - because they will realise that teacher tries to fool them.
Third problem - students should know that making mistakes is what distinguishes people from computers. People usually work with incomplete information and produce fuzzy results. Computers can’t work without precise instructions, but with precise instruction their results become precise.
So it is wrong to blame person when he make mistake. What’s the problem is: 1. Where there are too many mistakes. 2. When feedback loop is broken and person can’t or don’t want to correct his approaches.
I doubt that things will go better if I add emotions
So I try to focus on essence of the problem.
It produces less desire to go offtopic by other people.
This is how problem solving works.
Problem is identified by one person.
Other people gets convinced that problem exists.
Someone start to develop and implement solution.
If process stucks at stage #2, it means that either
Problem is not a problem at all (reporter is wrong).
Main developers are wrong, but can’t understand it.
Without having consensus on whether one person is wrong or another, it is not possible to move further.
It is just a tool. Very useful tool. I can’t understand why it may be “not needed”.
Several conversations can happen simultaneously.
If someone is not interested in some part of this topic, he can just ignore it and focus on what he likes more.
Private classes only, one-on-one stuff, but quite a few years doing primarily that for my income now in various subjects. So it’s really a very different environment, there’s no curriculum, no deadline, no-one looking over my shoulder, no 20-30 different voices and personalities, no complex authoritarian and popularity hierarchies (between kids, between teachers, between kids and teachers).
Even then, it sometimes takes not weeks, not months, but years before the student can relax and accept me as a “fellow-learner” who wants to help, rather than a school-person who is trying to trick them. Sometimes it isn’t possible, or only partially so, and odd fears and insecurities will remain.
I have a very strong suspicion that even most people who are critical of school are nowhere near a full realisation of the irreparable damage it does to the vast majority who go there.
People don’t take your point seriously regardless of whether it’s right or wrong, because you don’t explain enough, or you sound like you’re trying to “get one over”, or they perceive the tone as being harsh or insistent, or whatever.
Now, I don’t think you’re always so harsh or insistent, often it’s just blunt, which is fine, but just now and again it seems like you’re really ticked off at everyone being so thick that they don’t get your point. Maybe you don’t mean that, but it really sometimes does read like that.
If your intentions are indeed that you want to help squash bugs, then your strategy is quite poor. Having a discussion about “whether one person is wrong or another” is made more difficult if one of the people involved seems to be implying the other one is stupid, and that’s all I’m trying to say.
Put differently - it is possible to be sympathetic to, or at least understanding of, the fact that humans do have feelings, without getting lost in a parade of lovey-dovey compliments. You seem to think it’s one or the other.
I disagree; some people on the forum write very technically detailed comments, and do not descend into the emotional realm of compliments at all, or very rarely, and they seem to get on no-one’s nerves and be generally well-received.
I’m taking the time to write all this out to you in part also because I’m sympathetic to how tricky language is, having lived and worked in a few places speaking languages that aren’t my native one. Nuance can be hard, cultures that seem similar can be surprisingly different in reality, and one man’s “conversation about a bug” can be another man’s Blitzkrieg.
I for one salute @vort for bringing attention to this detail. Hopefully the bug is now resolved and the next testnet can demonstrate that. If not, it should be called out again, until the nodes/glasses do indeed fill uniformly – and uniformity range/limits should be clearly defined, so clear to all if test succeeds or fails in this regard.
It’s a kind of optimisation.
If person understands right away, then why explain more?
If not, then he can ask for additional information and in most cases I will provide it.
I assume that main goal is making good software, not obtaining perfect tone in bug reports.
It’s a software, which makes project useful, not history of processes, which led to final result.
Perfect processes, which led to failure, is much worse, than flawed processes, which led to success.
If main goal of this project is not software, then it’s my responsibility to tell as many people as possible about it.
There are two parts to it:
I think that discussion about something should reflect reality. If software have 10 useful features and 5 bugs, I expect to see proportional coverage in discussion. At least, because developers should know not only where to go, but also where not to go.
When I see software, useful for me, then I try to mix more sympathy into my bug reports. But when I see row of failures, neutral style is the most what I can provide.
One of my goals is to practice English here, yeah.
However I still think that content of my messages is more important than their shape.
If content is damaged because of wrong shape, it’s a problem.
But if not, it is better just to ignore roughness.
Am I the only one who is completely baffled by the amount of energy that goes into discussing a testnet behavior that is already being looked at closely by Team Ant and may completely go away in future testnets?
This is a rhetorical question, please don’t reply as I won’t be returning to this thread.
It is more discussion about correct description of behaviour, not about behaviour itself.
Or may not.
It is quite possible to have problem similar to Encountered a timeout while trying to join the network in previous “seasons” of Safe Network.
If you will not return here, then you will not see reply, which means it do not matter.
@Vort’s a dedicated and blood-hungry bug-hunter, and there’s been friction between him and the team before because of his communication style. I’d love to see him continue to contribute, and for there to be no falling out.
There was a dedicated thread and an attempt to discuss it before, which largely went in circles. I thought I saw an opportunity to once again try make it clear where I personally find his style of communication to be at times unnecessarily unclear and abrasive.
We’ve politely exchanged our points (cheers @Vort), it will now likely die down in a respectful manner, and I myself will be refraining in the future from jumping in, as I’ve already made myself clear here. And, of course, I could be totally off, and it’s my own sensibilities acting up, and it’s not that bad, or it’s necessary to communicate like that for some other reason, I don’t know. That could absolutely be the case.
So, clearly, I see it as a worthwhile thing to spend a bit of my time on, cos here I am. In any case, there’s a wonderful option down the bottom of every thread when you click on the bell, you can set it to “muted”, and after that you can focus purely on the subjects which you find worthy of your time.
@anon99156678 I don’t remember if I told about it or not, but I once found beautiful illustration made by PVS-Studio team (unicorn is their mascot). My behaviour is largely inspired by it:
