Taking it too long.
Riiiggghhht. 
Safenet is the most complex network ever known to man, and you claim it, "this is easy. Watch me! "
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Careful guys, you are being a bit disrespectful, first to @michaelsproul yes he was a bit hot headed, but that was fixed, youāre stirring that up, please donāt. I asked for detail and any questions to be posted here so the community could be involved. It makes sense to do that otherwise I waste time in telling hundreds of people the same thing. I dislike DM very much for discussing things that should be public.
If you stumbled across something valuable we would all love to see it though, but code/papers anything would have helped. You seem to be alienating your own community as well here. So calm consideration would be best. The insults are getting close to damaging for your team, please donāt lash out or alter anyoneās words. Just stay calm and simple. If you have something then supply some indication of what it is, 0-conf has very little to do with a decentralised network. Start with the encryption primitives and how they are used or similar. You will then find people who will help if it looks promising.
In any case, calm fellas calm.
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This is starting to sound like SafeX. If this is the case I cannot support this project. Please donāt take this as an attack. The people here that actually do support you (such as I) are definitely starting to feel alienated and at times itās embarrassing to even make support vocal when the NVO teams responses are so crass. This can be turned around. Stick with safe. Share your innovations. Be more professional. All will be well. Oh yeah and again, stick with safe.
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On this point @tonbi , @nemgun did DM me, but never mentioned this part (about creating a new safe network) at all, i twas about getting devs that fell through for some reason. For clarity please take this as my agreement to post the whole DM conversation for everyone to read. Folks should never doubt integrity and this is why those kind of DMās are not always good. I realise you were not in the DM @tonbi so perhaps ask @nemgun to let you read it as you may be misunderstanding the conversation.
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I agree this is a sensitive issue thatās why I thought it was weird you wanted us to make all of this public? We should definitely do a Skype call and see how to proceed before relying on more miscommunication to take over.
Itās not sensitive, if itās real it should be public immediately. There is no sensitivity involved, I had no idea you had created SAFE, so it cannot be sensitive. Your offer to get devs was public and that is not sensitive. Donāt worry about any of that, this community knows us very well and most of what we do, itās cool. They are a great bunch and will just help if possible. So make use of that, be open and help everyone else help you.
If there are sensitive issues then of course we will handle that sensitively and use DM slack signal etc. but there is no such issue here, itās all cool.
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No need to be drunk when you have delusion.
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@dirvine hello, i have been very respectuous, i contacted you, and you asked me to contact @Viv while i donāt realy know who he is.
I tried to give some updates and got insulted by people, i havenāt even noted that it was insulting, i have been very respectful, i brough a solution for safenet, not a new hassle, i said that i will hand it to you (and the MS team) once i finish with experimentations.
If i was disrespectful and manipulator, you think that i would have talked about it here ? i would have waited for 4 months, and would have asked for the safenet ETA, if not i would have gone with different techno.
People talking about Alex and coup dāetat ? whats wrong ? canāt we talk in an intelligent way and discuss about it instead of going into this kind of jeopardy ?
I said clearly that i will clearly experiment it during 2 months and then give it to you, as for now, we still have nothing on safenet.
let me explain, i made a fork of ethereum, made a POS blockchain for a different project, a gaming blockchain with 20mn super block for a new mining.
It had to be a proof of gaming originally, made to reward server operators. But finaly it went for proof of network as its capacities was larger.
I tested the EVM and concluded that it is very interesting and stable, after that i though about using a smart contract for maid, who could communicate with the servers on the network, and send the frontends of websites on the network, let the smart contract manage the database, no way to hack the smart contract and the database because of the private key usage, at the same time it is not easy to find who is who on the network.
Now letās imagine i am poloniex, and i decide to share my frontend in the world, EU USA ASIA ā¦ If someone is DDOSing USA i would have EU supporting the website which means that it would be always online, which means the network is protecting the website from spams and overloads. When someone shares his server, he offers his ressources to the network.
I can talk about it for hours, what ever, you will soon have a github repo, and will be able to see it, you can use it if you want.
I donāt see why does it is anoying to offer solutions. And i donāt see where ihve been insulting.
I donāt want to create a new community, we are all into the same community either bitcointalk or safenetforum, everyone here supports cryptocurrencies, for different reasons. I donāt like social medias and donāt see any utility in clustering people. I have been told to create a forum for NVO but i am opposed to this idea.
My system will work and i am sure that a lot of people will love it in the end, i asked nothing in return, i just said, if you want to use it do it, if not, no poblem. It is all up to you. Maybe you would be interested in forking it and working on your own implementation, it could bring new solutions and ideas which will lead to a better result.
@the people who trolled me today.
Please, learn to respect people, especially when they want to bring more solutions. It is really unfair to mock people who try to bring added values to the project, do not forget that without developers, the crypto world would have never borned.
People are skeptical, though. They think you are trying to steal the essenceāthe very, very, very patience-requiring ride of The SAFE Network and decentralized exchanges in general (both MAID and SEC of which already have large attention)āand create empty words that the average scumbag cryptocurrency investor hive mind can latch on to and create FOMO and all the rest of it, stealing the soul of a large chunk of the communitiesā predispositions. Your personality and claims are so outlandish, however, that it wonāt go completely as planned. If you do have some substance to provide for SAFEās endeavor, then ignore the part about stealing.
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I think we just need some clarity on what you mean by a ānew SAFEnetā.
No disrespect intended, but it took me months of full-time, daily reading (for many hours each day) to feel that I had a good handle on how the different bits in SAFE fitted together. It seems very difficult to imagine that anyone (no matter how smart) could conceivably get a good understanding of that much innovation and then also improve on it in such a short time. Thereās hundreds of hours of reading to be done before any newbie could get stuck in. Having a background in blockchain is of no help here. Everyone starts off a SAFE noob because it is innovation stacked on top of innovation.
Can you just clarify what it is that your new SAFEnet does?
Does it have unlimited scalability?
Does it split data into tiny self-encrypted chunks and spread them across a decentralised network?
Do you use PoR, is there data republish functionality. What about data chains? Have you created a āfarmingā rewards system and token?
NB, you should also note that after 11 years there is a SAFEnet. Have you guys used the testnetwork yet? Is what youāve built really comparable to the test17 SAFEnet? Do you have a launcher, browser etc?
I think giving us more detail would help us understand what it is that you are saying youāve built. Tbh, if a group of 2 dozen of the finest minds in crypto came and told me they had spent a month building a new safenet Iād laugh it off as ridiculous. It just physically isnāt possible to do that. Perhaps you can build some kind of decentralised network in a short time, but SAFE is much more than just a network of connected users and the only possible explanation for all this seems to be that you guys donāt really understand what SAFE is or how it works. Given how many people misunderstand it I donāt find it that surprising, but given you are working with the new protocols to create your exchange I would have expected you guys to understand SAFE well enough to know that it is not possible to simply build your own version in a few days (not without forking all their hard work anyway).
Can you confirm a list of features and functionality that this network has before giving us access to the code? I suspect weāll quickly find that we have different definitions of what SAFEnet is, and thatās why this disagreement has kicked off. Unless youāve āforkedā it Iām going to go ahead and say that must have misunderstood what SAFE is. A secure decentralised network is not much info to go onā¦ that could mean anything and it certainly doesnāt imply a thing of equal or greater value to the software we currently know about in quite a lot of detail.
If you can give us a list of features and functionality for this new network then I suspect all the confusion might dissipate. I reckon itās quite possible that the thing youāve built could also have been knocked out by Maidsafe in a few hours - I hope you donāt find that insulting or devalues your efforts - if you do then you must see how your comment comes across to Maidsafe too?
As others have said, show us code and show us feature lists to clear up any confusion. All we want is āprivacy, security and freedom for everyoneā, if you can give that to us in a week weāll gladly take it, but you can see why weād be sceptical when some of the greatest minds on the planet have been working on it for years and we still twiddle our thumbs in our digital cells waiting for these geniuses to free us.
tl dr - Iād be very happy if you have come up with some innovation of great value. I think perhaps that is quite possible. I am quite certain that you have not made SAFE redundant though, I guess it is just that we donāt have the same definition of what SAFE is and what it does. If you can clear that up we might all end up back on the same page. Then perhaps we can understand and appreciate what it is that you have achieved - and praise you for it if itās great 
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If you deliver on your claims you should definitely collaborate with the maidsafe team. Better yet get a firm grasp of the SAFE network fundamentals and work together to speed up the launch of the live network. Letās put this to rest and move forward into a better future. 
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A fair question to ask when your CEO says,
All I asked was does the person who backed you up to Maidsafe know you are making such outrageous remarks?
You can call it disrespectful if you like but itās absolutely not. A very fair question considering the disrespectful nature of your statement.
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Spot on and needed saying I think. 
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How will you deal with PCI compliance ?
Jabba, itās always a pleasure to talk to you, to explain to you I havent worked on NVO only, I wanted to make a blockchain dedicated to gaming, I made researches to develop the web. I noticed that solar energy is being used in many countries in the world, so we will not be forced to be connected by cables, and I thought that the only cable that will remain is the optical fiber cable, I asked myself a question, how to replace the use of light in the transmission of data (fiber optics)? I found that the waves can do it well, I would explain his details later, Ben trying to have nexus to talk with them because if we are going to make a decentralized internet it means that we must also review The whole infrastructure from the beginning.
To return to SAFEnet, I made an ethereum fork to make a blockchain dedicated to gameing, the objective is simple, creating the future steam, with its home-made games, books, new scenario given that it havenāt changed much in recent years. A future Steam without its own games does not do much, and give developers the opportunity to create their own integrations and smart contract for their future games, let me explain how it works.
First it is a POS that reward the connected nodes in the network which means that the network will be pretty stable, every 20 minutes there will be a superblock that will reward the people who are going to share their servers with the players who use the network. We can already compare them to farmers. If a player is in canada wants to play, he will find the nearest server in order to be as stable as possible.
I have already checked the github of safe, and I can say that there is nothing very exciting, apart from the safe browser that interested me, and it is somewhat annpoying as you need a key for the testnet.
To come back to my point of view, I thought it would be more interesting to create a decentralized internet where people could connect to the nearest ping, developers could share their site in several places in the world simultaneously, which is a protection against DDOS, and everything will be managed by the blockchain, the identities will remain totally annonymous, has privacy of everyone protected, I have respected all these factors. Safenet uses decentralized storage, but itās not enough for an internet, it would be better to use the CPU too, to let the farmers buy their own servers and put them at home, so we stay in a logical and much richer protocol.
One of the actual flaws, and Iām talking openly about it, is the domain names, I havent spent a lot of time on it, but thatās what iām going to do over the next few months.
I called it proof of network, however itās close to the proof of resource, Iām not against the fact that they use it, it would really make me enjoy, especially if it helps to advance.
In 15-20 days a part of the code will be online, but I do not stop to be insulted. I still wonder why Iām helping, I feel like Iām stupid doing so.
I tested the testnet 1 month and a half ago, I understand that it is still an alpha but here I try to help as best I can.
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(Face palm) how is this not insulting??? And Iām sorry but if you donāt find any of it interesting then you donāt understand it at all. Ethereum is shit and unscalable and I donāt want to hear about its market cap. Iām okay with nvo doing whatever as long as itās secure and uses safe as a way of storing keys but seriously donāt go saying you built it. You modified some ethereum crap, say that maidsafes github repos (which are modular) are uninteresting, and claim to have built safe in a couple months. False. So if anything, the safe network you created sounds uninteresting. Stick with building the validator and using safe as a key storage.
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If youāve cracked PoS as well then you really need to write up this stuff or publish your code. You could save a lot of other people a lot of work
This sounds a bit crazy to me. How much of it did you read and look through? Realistically, it canāt have been much given the time frames. Iām not sure you appreciate how many years of thought and work have gone into them.
You should probably put the code up at the same time as making the announcement. If you announce something incredible that doesnāt have any public code available then of course people will be sceptical. Iām sure if I came on here saying I stayed up late last night and solved cold fusion but wouldnāt be able to publish my work for a week Iād suffer a week of ridicule. I think youāve just put the cart before the horse. Just publish the code and let others give it the fanfare it deserves if it deserves it.
That said I appreciate your passion and confidence, it makes you who you are. And Iām not qualified to judge your code even when you release it tbh, I hope there is a gem of some description in there, but it seems too incredible to imagine youāve really redesigned a better SAFEnet at this point - it would take a while for my mind to accept that reality I think 
I think most of the community could fork a blockchain project if they really wanted to. There are not many up to the challenge of working on any given aspect of SAFE though. To imagine one person who could do it all, see it all and produce it all himself in weeks seems ludicrous.
If it is true and this decentralised network really does what SAFE does then fair enough, you will earn a name as the superman of coding and I will personally seek you out so I can shake your hand and thank you for saving us. 
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Cheers Pal, you ability to speed read code is pretty amazing I think you should call it quits right here. I donāt know what would excite you though, seems ānon waveā light would perhaps, or maybe just stick within the electromagnetic spectrum, oh wait ā¦ Perhaps ātestingā a testnet before itās published also makes you excited. You must know you do not even need a testnet to get your project going and confirming it works on SAFE.
Seriously I feel you have very little knowledge of SAFE and thatās worrying as you used SAFE as a driver for your crowdsale/ICO and thatās pretty alarming. I have no idea why you do seem to continue to make pretty abrasive and demeaning statements, I think itās beyond a language issue.
Your description of safe and comparison to blockchain tech is very ill informed and could not really be more wrong, never mind your take on physics etcā¦ I will mute this thread now and please do not DM me or any of the team as this is all way too distracting.
I do not call out this kind of thing (I kept very quiet about safex) as I wish everyone to have a chance, you seem to have taken that way to far now. You will now embarrass Alex for trying to help you out and he is on honeymoon right now. Thatās a terrible shame and there was no need. All you had to do was work on the exchange as you agreed. If you had you would have some kind of testnet enabled demoās no matter how small.
Good luck with your cash and new safe network,
I would vote for the removal of this thread and project as it is another safex indeed, same lack of knowledge and brash unfounded claims of technical ability and self proclaimed genius that will end poorly. What a shame, itās sad but happens I suppose. I sincerely hope I am wrong here and the NVO team get to work and make it happen with demos of their promises and no talk of gaming, infrastructure and all that distracting stuff. I hope for the sake of all who invested that will be the case and I would love to be wrong in my fear here.
I still trust Alex and feel this all looks bad on him, he is not that kind of guy, but your team have damaged him here. I know he is well above all of this, but no need to stab him in the back when he is not looking @nemgun itās not good business or good manners.
If you post the code @nemgun and have a secure autonomous anonymous decentralised network (storage and computations (i.e. mutable Data, CRDT types etc.)) with self authentication, self encryption, data chain type facilities, all the client code, back end and front end libraries for devs then I will apologise, But you should also tell ethereum as they look like 2 years to go with their plans to enter this space, using first POS and then sharding etc. So your superhuman if you can do more than the MaidSafe Engineers and all the Ethereum Engineers and all in a few weeks while you were supposed to be working on something else altogether. Perhaps let IPFS, StorJ SIA SOLID etc. know you have gone way beyond their current roadmaps as well.
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This is my personal though about it, i have to check the maidsafe repositories and see all of them.
I absolutely donāt care about Ethereum, i know it is a crap, i just took the good sides of Ethereum, they work on casper since years too.
considering the technolgical sides only (we donāt talk about prices) Ethereum have some great attributes, and thatās what i use, transaction speed, and EVM. I could have forked Blackcoin and implemented counterparty protocole.
I try to take the best of each and adding my ideas, fixing bugs, improving sides.
Patience is a virtue, letās wait a couple of week, and then see by yourself. If it is beneficial to the project, use it, fork it, do what ever you want with it. If not, then letās forget it. However, i will know how to to use it.
What i canāt understand is that in the beggining people was happy when i said that i will help the team, now that i am doing itn, people are unhappy.
Have i betrayed maidsafe ? no, i try to explain that i am doing something for everyone, but apparently Dirvine have to do it or else, it is just a crap. I think this is the problem, i havenāt insulted anyone, and i am really grateful to dirvine for the safenet idea, i just developed around it. It is like a contribution, it is had when people doesnāt understand that.
I would have asked dirvine for a contract, a recruitment, maybe you would have accepted this idea if it was the case, the problem is that people shouldnāt fear the unknown, have faith in yourself, why comparing me to safex ? you rush too much in quick conclusions.
I want to ask only one question to the ones who are criticising me, have anyone of you recruited devs for the team ? or brough devs to work on safenet ? check the amount of contributors, i am sure that 90% of the people who are crying and criticising me are here to get an added value from madesafecoin, the problem is that i try to contribute to the community, hopefuly i know that the community is large, and some larger minds understands that i just wanted to focus on the safenet development questions because i am here for that.
Letās stop criticising for nothing, it is like safex have literally tortured your minds (mental rape ?), please stop acting like victims, there are psychologists for that if you have troubles to trust the external world.
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