Multiple choice charity sponsorship for SAFE new joiners?

Hi, Proof Of Unique Human is a hotly debated topic.

PUH was considered to solve the following problem:

  • it would be nice to provide each new joiner with a small amount of space for free
  • somebody has to pay for this space
  • we want this space to be used fairly - not all by a single individual through multiple accounts

How about this decentralised and future-proof solution:

  • there are multiple organisations on SAFE paying for space to newcomers
  • each is runs to its own rules

One presents a CAPTCHA, another requires a voice sample. Rules change as time goes by.

###Extra power

An extra power could go to these organisations. A scary power.

You may remember I want many competing DNS? (Or petnames, still owe an RFC…)

These charities could suggest initial settings to newcomers - seeding ip-s to bootstrap SAFE connection, search engines, web-of-trust systems.

A newcomer has to get these from somewhere, right?

Hmmm, we basically already have that today. Those companies’ names start with G, M and Y.

But this is a good reminder about reasons behind this obsession: catering to freeloaders!
There’s just one problem: it never works, so it won’t work here either.


I still think that some big rich SAFE App mega-company (or person) would spring up and make apps that pay for people to get some data free, to help developing countries, poor people here, young people, etc etc or anyone who needs it.

Because look, Google made billions on today’s internet and they did it with Google Drive. And it will be even easier and cheaper for a person or company to do it on SAFE because they won’t have to erect huge buildings, data centers, hire system admins, etc etc etc etc.

tl;dr: Making any sort of free space in the core network is a mistake, it will happen naturally through apps faster on SAFE than it did on today’s internet.


I still think that some big rich SAFE
App mega-company (or person) would
spring up and make apps that pay for
people to get some data free,
to help developing countries,
poor people here, young people,
etc etc or anyone who needs it.

Exactly! But even if they don’t you and me can band together providing 100’000 newcomers with 10Mb each - costing us only a few Tb. And when our space runs out @dyamanaka will join in and donate some of his SafeCoins :wink:

Best of all there will be real humans behind it (me and you) deciding how much space to give, which capcha to use, etc.

On the dark side of it as @janitor correctly points out evil Foogle can demand private data in exchange for space, have naive people install adware and force itself as the searchengine. Perhaps some tech measures could partially mitigate this…


Catbert this is how today’s countries are so fxxxed up.
A “solution” to a non-problem creates problems which then require a solution, which creates another problem, etc.
And before you know you’re not allowed to do anything except pay tax to your Community Organizers.

Right now, 1 MAID costs about 1 cent.

  • Unless you’re a serious pervert, you could store all your porn on MaidSafe for $1.
  • A modest scholar could store - not just store, but share with the world and do it forever - all his e-books on MaidSafe for a fraction of that amount.
  • Any ultra-poor nice person can ask nicely for 1 MAID and unless they’re a total asshole someone will send it to them so that they can get started.
  • One person with some unused HDD space an internet connection will be able to fairly easily earn enough SAFE to get his whole village on SAFE Network.

What is the exact problem that needs to be solved?


What is the exact problem
that needs to be solved?

  • each new user account registered requires a little space to store the key and settings
  • it would be nice if each new user was provided with some extra space on top of that for free - for a few emails, basic apps etc
  • however cheap this space has to be paid for by somebody
  • if a sufficient amount of space is offered for free this could attract bots registering multiple accounts

I see solving the above as important to SAFE adoption. Obviously many different solutions are possible.

  • you can join by invitation and the inviter pays
  • you can start by buying some safecoin in real world - say on www
  • you can tax all farmers and distribute the tax to any newcomer who can solve a captcha - however then it is not clear who decides on taxation level, choice of captcha, amount of space offered etc; especially tricky is that as time goes by these decisions may need to be adjusted.

As you can probably see I see some issues with all of the solutions listed above.

Any ultra-poor nice person can
ask nicely for 1 MAID
One person with some unused HDD
space an internet connection will
be able to fairly easily earn
enough SAFE to get his
whole village on SAFE Network.

And this is precisely what I purpose to institutionalise. People/organisations willing to do so have an easy way to pay for initial storage for new joiners. The idea was that this may turn out to be the most socially acceptable way to let people join which would facilitate fastest adoption.

Can’t wait to set up a faucet application to distribute some coins. SafecoinFaucet :stuck_out_tongue:


It costs 1 cent to buy enough space to store the settings.

Few, if any, of those ideas are worth the poorest person’s time.

Low-end laborer in Bangladesh makes 24 cents per hour. Even he needs to work only 5 minutes to pay full price to access 1MB of space for the most basic SAFE Network use. There’s neither need nor benefit to him to hassle with your marketing tricks.
As far as the minority that does have a PC or phone and money to pay for internet access is concerned, all of them already get 50 GB’s of online space for free and a ton of free (and not just basic) apps without solving any captchas or other tricks. (You’ve heard of Google, Yahoo and Microsoft, right?)

You’re trying to solve a non-existing problem.


The RFC has been submitted

I’m with Janitor on this. If bitcoin is anything to go by, the moment the start-up community hears that the Safenet is up and running, there’ll be at least several companies who are clones of each other giving out free storage for using their gimmicky social media clone app of the day.

1 Like

Agreed. Giving away SAFEcoin will largely be unnecessary.

The person can be gifted a coin from the friend who introduces them to SAFE.

The person could download the vault and start farming and get enough coins to store data.

The person even could buy some coins

The person needs no coins to access data on SAFE

Let gifting be done on a personal basis which means there is no need for PUH, I am sure you know if your friends are human or not


Joining by invitation is fine, paying with a credit card fine as well.
However there is something that worries in me a bit in the other scenario:

  • before I start farming I need to get registered with the network, right?
  • the registration costs some space, right?
  • who pays for it?
  • what if I register myself 1 million times - for whatever reason - and never start farming?

Not completely sure, but I understood you can. Just not 100% sure how payment addresses are allocated.

For the client account and if you want it persistent. But you can use safe with a temp credentials.

Any number of ways as mentioned

You will have 1,000,000 registrations that last a very short time. Doubtful you get past a 100 before the 1st is lost.

You don’t need an account to browse public data.

You do need one to store data, and the network allows you to create one for free, but it will be deleted automatically if you fail to deposit one Safecoin in the account soon after (David suggested 10 minutes as an example - but as there’s no network time I don’t know the actual mechanism for determining this).

I think you could run a vault without an account, but to have its earnings collected you need to provide an ID which obviously you only get from an account, so without this any earnings would I assume be lost.

1 Like

Thank you for your kind explanation; helped me a lot to understand the plan.
All I actually wanted was to avoid PUH on joining the network :smile:

###More thoughts

I still believe my scheme may have some merits.
For one thing people may see as simpler and more welcoming.

To elaborate a little further on how I imagined it:

  • new joiner without an account communicates with the charity in some way
  • the charity if it chooses so sponsors account creation for him
  • the charity however does not know the id of the account just created

The latter is to prevent the charity from spamming the joiner in some way.

###On a different note

it might indeed by nice to start farming without an account
and later use the proceeds to join

1 Like

It seems to me there must be a mechanism to own coins before having an account.

You must have coin to create a long term account, to get coin you must have an account. Catch 22

And having the ability to have an account for mere minutes is not a realistic option for receiving coins. Imagine the lost coins because someone is a tad late sending the newbie a coin to keep that temp account, but it closes itself before the coin is sent/used. Or newbie cannot get coin sent to them quick enough, maybe it will take days for some and newbie doesn’t know exactly when or could happen at inconvient time (asleep/school/uni/work)

Or before anyone has coin. Or when we get MAIDSAFE converted.

There must be a mechanism to have a payment address before account setup, otherwise we have “race” conditions and I imagine a lot of confusion/frustration when trying to get that first coin to keep the account.

Maybe I could send my pal a cryptographic token.
That token would lock in an amount of cash required to setup an account.
Whoever has the token can use it to create an account.

This does raise a question of how exactly to send the token to smb. who doesn’t yet have an address.
And setting up an address costs space too so ideally shouldn’t be done before one has paid for an account.

Perhaps the token could be sent via present day email or on paper. It would also need to be decided if these tokens can be used for other means like topping up an existing account and if this is likely to cause any abuse in the payment system.

###Back to the idea with charities

  • a newcomer visits the charity’s page on WWW or SAFE
  • he gets the token via HTTPS or an equivalent
  • he immediately uses it to create an account on SAFE

Here there is no need to store information in an INBOX for somebody who doesn’t have an account yet.

I agree this is an issue, the fact is: Safecoin is data on the network which has its owner recorded on it.

To own Safecoin without an account I can think of two options:

  • minted Safecoin which has been sent to you (ie a file), which you can deposit in your account once you create it (but which the issuer or anyone else holding a copy could deposit before you do), or
  • a way to generate a network ID to which Safecoin can be assigned, much like a bitcoin address, with only the owner of the private key being able to “collect” the Safecoin. I’m not sure if this is feasible or not - I think you would still have to have the corresponding minted Safecoin (file) because you would need to know the address of the Safecoin in order to use it. edit: the advantage would be that only the person with the private key would be able to access the minted Safecoin.
1 Like

I am sure that this issue will have to be addressed before SAFEcoin can be finally implemented.

If its hard for those of us who “know” what SAFE is then it will seem crazy to those who are new to SAFE. IE a barrier to adoption if one has to jump through hoops to open an account to store a file.

1 Like

Mark, that’s an option indeed. However it would need to be sent outside of SAFE would it not? It won’t be possible to send via SAFE to somebody who doesn’t yet have an account?