The whole point of the concept safe network was to separate company from concept. So, I don’t see why not? This would even invite other developers to contribute because they can actually see the tasks needed to finish the network; and also to have discussions about how to solve things. For instance there is few developer discussion and for sure if safe network is going to be developed by other people into the future shouldn’t there be a place to have those discussions. rather than trying to appeal to maidsafe
Maidsafe doesn’t give updates on what issues are ripe atm and making it possible for outsiders to see and assist, not asking for your code help.
I am reminded by Rust-Lang has “internals” forum that is strictly moderated for just only discussion about the language development. No speculation nothing about how RUST going to change the world; even application discussion is removed from there.
Then there is another Rust-Lang forum called “Users” and that’s where you can discuss how you are using the language.
If we had a just only dev forum it would help to sort out noise from development progress. Allow core developers to discuss real issues and get help from the open.
And if launch is “just around the corner” then why don’t we just venture forward on what is left, go around the corner and see the rainbow and live safely ever after and like this Solve all the funding issues in one shot AND deliver on the network?
Because it invites political bs into the project with factions and such nonsense. You probably want to fast-track some features that you find particularly desirable for your project, but that the community in general might not see any reason to prioritize.
Daniel i know nothing about programming, but it’s not easy to wrap your head around with developing on the SAFE Network, let alone developing the SAFE Network. The Maidsafe team has been on it for a while now. I’ve approached devs to help me code up a app and it’s taking them weeks to wrap their heads around this.
My 2 cents: I called to Maidsafe the company after I donated, these are real people, the SAFE Network is real. Let’s be grateful that we can witness this technology come to life. Right now we’re loosing time
We don’t have time for this. Launch may be ‘just around the corner’ but it is not for us to decide what that entails. Everything in your post is possible and a good idea once the network is complete, but if the team thought that it was possible to fund the homestretch in that way, they would’ve come up with that. I’m quite sure that there were intense meetings concerning the best path forward. DIrvine didn’t just wake up one day and say, “Let’s do it like this!” If the path that you are advocating was viable, it would’ve been the announcement. Instead, they want to go with this option, they put it to the community and still haven’t made a decision, let’s let them work. This community is not large enough for a ‘bounty system’ to work. How many devs work at Maidsafe? Less than 20 IIRC. So where are these developers that ‘we are going to fund somehow’ going to come from? I’m a developer, and I don’t work on labors of love for free. Funding is very real. The maidsafe team right now are understaffed and probably underpaid (just a guess) but they labor on because they believe in the vision. I too believe in the vision. Let’s not jump the gun and open the oven before the cake is ready otherwise it will DEFINITELY fall flat and our hopes will come to nothing.
As a developer myself, who doesn’t know a lick of Rust, I can confirm your sentiments. Do not think it is easy to go that route! Developers need TIME to get acclimated to a new system before they can earn revenue/make changes to code. And that’s WITHOUT having to learn a new systems level language like Rust. Time is something we do not have much of and cannot afford to waste.
I don’t see this as stealing at all. As it says in the announcement:
A technical issue with the Master Protocol (now Omni protocol) that resulted in an over issuance during the crowdsale
It would be stealing if Mr. Irvine cashed in on the crowd funding campaign, kept some money for himself and was withholding developer payments, or worse. Of course, David has proven that he’s both legit and transparent. Announcing a way forward and pitching a funding idea to the community is probably the opposite of stealing – not to mention that most agree with the idea in part or in entirety.
I noticed after my long winded proposal above that the announcement blog post does say Plan with a few bullets, but hopefully there are much more details to come.
I also stick by my Financials forum category proposal, which would see at least a bi-weekly post. (Or under Updates with a sub-category of Financials). It shouldn’t need to be nearly as long as the dev updates though!
@benjaminbollen “I dropped out of my PhD in theoretical physics in the summer of 2014, because I believe it is important to stand for the things we believe in and I believe in Project SAFE and the SAFE network and the values of default privacy for all, we stand for.”
Let me get this straight You love maidsafe so much you left working on it while it was in active development then worked for an ethereum spinoff, but then you come back here because you “love maidsafe” so much you start by posing “tough love” questions without even researching github first for answers. All the while criticizing your former employer and character slaughtering him?
Ego is one hell of a drug kids. Ego not even once.
Let me put it to you this way - this community doesn’t need an apple fanboy on a white horse swooping in to put down people who worked very hard to get this far. I don’t know what gives, but let me put you on notice. We are pretty damn good at scrutinizing and understanding exactly what’s going on here.
You couldn’t commit to a Ph.D. You couldn’t commit to this project and just taking a wild guess here but I doubt your going to commit to everything you sweared to do over the next three hours.
The 24M coins are already included in the market cap, so they are not being added, so there is no devaluation from the current situation for coin holders, so they are not stealing anything, they are ‘borrowing’ 24M from the foundation. Perhaps they should have been burned at the time. As I said, if the crowdsale had gone as planned they probably would have burned them. If you have the best interests of the project at heart shouldn’t you want to see it succeed quickly with some resources to call on, rather than fail slowly due to lack of finance?
I don’t know you Ben, but to me your post seems heavy on fluff and shy on content.
I have looked long and hard for signs of suspect behaviour or anything that might make me question my trust in David and the financial risks I’ve taken. There really isn’t much to call into question. Even this is quite understandable. Surely any sane person in David and Nick’s position would have done the same thing post crowdsale fiasco? They would have burned them if they hadn’t needed them to make sure the project was seen through to the end, in the interests of all the people who’ve invested their time and money in it so far.
There is nothing stopping you from having these discussions. I’m not sure why you need to frame it in such a way that makes it sound like there has been an absence of them up to now.
I’m sure if you want to start a thread to discuss some particular misgivings you have about the ‘formal logic behind the implementation’, then you’d be free to do that and we can all watch as your debate unfolds and make our own judgement calls about that. If you aren’t allowed to do that then I’m concerned, at the moment it seems that you are free to do so but instead you are shouting about illegal behaviour, limited capabilities of the team and stealing. That doesn’t inspire.
Have you been censored from discussing anything like that? It doesn’t seem likely given your post above hasn’t been censored?
We are not blind and we are not stupid, but most of us do have faith and trust, it’d take more than a few spurious and vague statements about stealing and ‘formal logic issues’ to shake that trust. If you have anything real or interesting to share then I think we all deserve to hear it, but I guess the fact that you haven’t already shared any shocking revelations means this is all just pissing in the wind for the sake of showing off your wang.
No offence intended despite my short tone. You worked for maidsafe for a year so you must be smart and a decent person in my book, regardless of what happened and where you are now. I’m not sure what led you to leave or what happened with you and David, but my experience of human beings leads me to assume this is more about a war of opinion and bruised ego; office politics always is. You can try and frame is as legitimate concern for the project, but when you start with hyperbolic, inflammatory and inaccurate language like ‘legally stealing’, then call into question whether the team are ‘capable’ of it, you reveal an ego at the heart of it… This is something David never does, it is a large part of the reason I am such an avid fan of the project.
Share things we need to know and we’ll thank you, even if they are bad news; start throwing stones and calling names and you’ll be called out for it until you provide something of substance.
I personally think your “legitimate place in this community” was vacated the same time you left active development. (And frankly that’s my opinion I am a nobody here)
Don’t explain to us why you were passive aggressive. We know why you were passive aggressive. We understand that passive aggression is a tool used by manipulators.
Let me explain something to you that kind of behavior is weakness. Now you’re trying to walk back your comments without apologizing. How dare you. You should apologize immediately and try to save face.
What you did was straight up irresponsible as a former developer here you knew full well people might take hold of your words.
The way I see it Ben is that you seem to be an intelligent guy, but you either have a hidden agenda in your pocket and are trolling the MaidSafe community/company or I’m wrong and you’re not that smart.
From my point of view you are more than welcome to improve the code or find a solution to a problem that you found if, as you say, want to see things pushing forward, but you are not doing either of these.
You are vaguely trying to highlight problems in the code, while bashing David for selling coins to fund the future.
It’s a sign of disrespect, huge ego and with these I don’t think you’ll resist too long in here because some people here, really care about this project
Why are we wasting time on an embittered employee who didn’t show enough respect to bring himself current on the code before trolling? The devs probably spent 3 hours mentally grinding on his accusations that could have been put towards meaningful work.
David (see Jabba’s comment above for character assessment) and his crew are 100 feet from the top of Mt. Everest. Ben wants to jump on their legs so he’s dragged up to the top for pictures on the summit.
and to be more precise: I have stated I care about the project; I have also stated that I warned David that selling these coins for me was the line in the sand and he has crossed it. This is a personal decision I have made, but as the line is crossed, I will from now on actively separate MaidSafe as the company from the success of the SAFE network, a community and implementation that I hope can successfully contribute to a better internet. There are far more easy ways to expose MaidSafe as the company than my current efforts to expose technical problems as I have seen them, and engage to improve them.
It’s remarkable how strongly opposing voices are extremely aggressively fought on this forum. I have received far more aggression the past couple of hours than I have dealt to David. But I was aware this would happen and I still feel it is important for me to speak out now that this line has been crossed.
@janitor Said that recently too, and said the discussion was silenced by the mods.
This is quite huge. Just wanted to make sure this one doesnt get silenced too Because it’s not fair to silence points even if Janitor gets out of hand sometimes lol
Please don’t accuse me and the other mods of silencing topics like this. If you think there’s any censorship or silencing about certain subject please point it out and let everybody know about it but please don’t make these kind of serious allegations about people that have been helping thousands of people on this forum to form a community and discuss SAFE everyday. Both negative and positive on all subjects related to SAFE are welcome and won’t be deleted, silenced or censored.
It’s not the first time you mention this so please bring up some facts or situations in the META category if you want to talk about this.
Not really in the loop here, but I want to chime in and say that generally I’m not in favor for drawing lines in the sand, like, what happened to just making rational decisions based on all the information present.
Sortof same thing that annoys me about religion. All these strong beliefs, all based on emotions and thoughts that for some reason just gets locked in peoples head, from what I can tell Benjaminbollen (whoever you are) is atm a great example of that.
As I read you made (for whatever reason) a statement that “If David touches those coins that’s it for me”, which in itself is a stupid and childish thing to state imo. And now when that scenario may become a reality you come back (apparently) despite having left, and you take nothing into consideration. As if the state of Maidsafe is exactly how it was when you left and that David took all 24mill and insta sold it on Poloniex to buy a boat.
When actually what has been proposed is not unreasonable, at all. And given the circumstances, even though David and the team does not want to do it, clearly using those available coins as a loan is the path of least resistance and enables everyone to continue on asap. So like, shouldn’t we as a community be supportive and contribute what little we can by saying that, if you guys think that this is the best decision, given the circumstances and lack of alternative options then go for it.
And if I understood it correctly, these funds will go to paying workers and Maidsafe will even pay them back, from a cut on their “developer fund” or what it’s called. So essentially to summarize, to me it looks like:
-A quick and efficient solution to a complicated problem, that in the longrun benefits safecoin holders, with a slight penalty for the Maidsafe company"
I don’t even care if it hurts my current long position on Poloniex or whatever, I can and will respect people who make hard/controversial decisions when they are rational and well thought out.