MaidSafe and project SAFE moving forward

[MrAnderson]

@Safety1st I agree totally. Two huge assumptions (The MAID value will stay at a price that gives them enough funding and they will get enough funding to finish the promised product) have not and will not be addressed until there is more transparency on there financial need. Every week (really with every commit) the community gets specific detail of what they have done with coding and what they plan on doing with coding.

Now look at how funding and managing their finances has gone. Yea we had a successful crowdsale and have everything we need to get the network out by the end of the year → maybe not that successful, but still plenty of funding to finish the product---->well we are looking at possible vc, but we are still fine to get to MVP—>we are out of money and haven’t produced MVP, but will pay it back after we finish the MVP.

That is all fine and dandy but requires trust (they have earned, but stressed by not producing a usable product which for me is SafeCoin) and strong belief they have what is necessary to complete the advertised product (SafeCoin)…which the lack of transparency is challenging my belief.

[metoo]

I agree 100%, the first thing that came to mind when I saw this thread was the crowdsale. I don’t think there was any malicious intent on behalf of the team then or now, but rather that mistakes will be made along the way. I hope the devs thoroughly consider all available options and the possible repercussions before moving forward.

[dirvine]

@Safety1st

with issues being pointed out like the movement of these accidental coins that @MrAnderson mentioned. I trust that you will provide a reasonable explanation for this soon.

I think I did actually

@dirvine

It appears you already sent 1M to Poloniex over a month ago (http://omnichest.info/lookupadd.aspx?address=1JXEMejykPeq41qkAKNEtPzSDCKaohHndA) What can you tell us about this?

Well first it was not 1 million it was 900,000 unsold coins form the crowdsale. We said the conclusion of the sale was completely horrendous, the mastercoin network was out of consensus. So the stop token was late and meant the extra Maid were already created. The sale also stopped short before the coins were all sold. It was 900,000 short. So these were simply the undersell amount, not any created in error. These should have been sold and will be.

The task now is to use the existing coins as best as possible to continue and enhance the project and do it in a way that is fair an honorable so

They are part of market cap
We use them

So we pay them back, not at $ value but in coins. So we take a huge hit as a company to do this and pay back a .hopefully, horrendous amount of $value back in the same number of safecoins. All being well this is a much better deal for the community that the most ferocious VC could make us agree to. We do this because we believe in the project, work hard and are fully committed to the community benefit == our benefit in the long run. So yes it’s a tough cost for us, but the project should be so much bigger than a few thousand coins whatever the eventual value is.

All in the open and yes we take a hit, very few of the scare stories will look at that and if they do then they will just call us economics fools or similar. We could have done so many wrong things with these coins or just terminated the project. So we choose the tough path, but the right path. Take an advance at today’s price, pay back later at a much much higher price.

[happybeing]

@MrAnderson thanks for explaining what is undermining your trust. I think that’s one reading of this, and I do recognise the things you refer to as broadly true, but (for reasons of explanation I accept) a crude summary of the negatives, which ignores many details - which include reasons to be positive too.

Just look at the progress made while not delivering the MVP. Yes, the MVP announcement was premature - again - so why are long time followers so surprised. It is precisely because they want to deliver so badly, under pressure (however well meant) from this community and investors, that MaidSafe have tended to over promise.

Let me predict something: it will happen again. No matter how hard you try, it is extremely difficult to not do this. There’s my experience from the coal face again!

We have very tangible progress. Remember, this project is not guaranteed to succeed because it is attempting something nobody has come close to achieving before. That is why it is hard to meet deadlines. It may fail totally. But I will keep supporting it until we know one way or another.

EDIT: …which I will now go and do by trying to do a bit more coding myself !

[dirvine]

@happybeing

fade in the theme from The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

Damn now the watch tune is in my head

[Panda]

You guys should really apply for that EU grant. Actually one of my closest friend is a coach for EU and we talked just a couple of days ago that you guys should apply and that you would get approved for sure. Seen lots of somewhat similar projects get a ton of funding that way. AI projects, smart home, even pure blockchain projects. GL

[dirvine]

@Panda

You guys should really apply for that EU grant.

Yes we did, then the UK decided on a vote to leave the EU and it seems UK applications do not seem to be having much luck just now. Maybe after this vote it will get better though. I agree what we do and how it’s being done is in line with the EU requirements, but the politics seems to be in our way right now.

[candepend]

You know, I invested in the crowdsale the original one You guys said you have valuable Mastercoins one day they will be worth a lot. Then you guys brother up. Then call it a debacle. Then burn your funds and said you will launch next month 2 years ago. Then you guys don’t finish the platform. Then instead of finishing the platform and getting 200 million Safecoins like we agreed to in the crowdsale you guys are selling overproduced coins to further your funding goals. Can my investment in you guys and this project depend on more bad decisions No!

[dirvine]

@candepend

You know, I invested in the crowdsale the original one You guys said you have valuable Mastercoins one day they will be worth a lot. Then you guys brother up. Then call it a debacle. Then burn your funds and said you will launch next month 2 years ago. Then you guys don’t finish the platform. Then instead of finishing the platform and getting 200 million Safecoins like we agreed to in the crowdsale you guys are selling overproduced coins to further your funding goals. Can my investment in you guys and this project depend on more bad decisions No!

Welcome to the forum, nice to see you post, have you lurked for 2 years?

That’s about 9 points and all incorrect except for the very last point. 200 million safecoins? Us being happy we had a ton of mastercoin? Brother up with who? Debacle was coined by others, but fitted well, It’s not we did not finish the platform, we have not yet finished the platform. There is no plan to not finish the platform, it’s a weird post.

PS we are not all guys

[ioptio]

No where did we say mastercoins were valuable… quite the contrary in fact. We got stuck holding a huge bag of those and essentially knew they were an immediate loss. We’ve admitted we misinterpreted the ability of mastercoin team to co-host our crowdfund and regret some of those decisions… but have made the best of what we got out of it.

Overall, the delays of this project were necessary for the security of the system. The refactoring and rewriting in Rust have all been huge improvements on the system at the cost of delays. We understand the frustrations that come along with these delays and are doing our best to get a system out that we can be proud of.

[Josh]

If I were going to make a public announcement that will incite a scurry I would do so shortly before I make announcements that reverse that.
Get the pandemonium over before delivering what everyone is waiting for.
I am excited about what’s on the horizon I anticipate good news to follow.

[lightyear]

@dirvine

Yes we did, then the UK decided on a vote to leave the EU and it seems UK applications do not seem to be having much luck just now. Maybe after this vote it will get better though. I agree what we do and how it’s being done is in line with the EU requirements, but the politics seems to be in our way right now.

Curious: which one did you apply for? I was thinking maidsafe should be able to get funding for doing a proper ARM client which would allow embedded devices to “send” data into the network under the whole Internet of Things Grant scheme – especially if you mention “decentralised” and “privacy” a whole lot.

Anyways. I am (and intending to) staying on mainland Europe and am happy to facilitate something (I’ve opened and run a fair share of companies here) if the main/only problem is “being in the UK”…

[dirvine]

@lightyear

Anyways. I am (and intending to) staying on mainland Europe and am happy to facilitate something (I’ve opened and run a fair share of companies here) if the main/only problem is “being in the UK”…

Ah very interesting for many reasons. We applied for a specific innovation award @nicklambert did a ton of work there and will let us know the exact one. We went through two rounds but then stopped due to workload. It was a really hard application for about £1m or thereabouts.

[nicklambert]

It was the ‘SME Instrument: Open Disruptive Innovation Scheme Phase 2’ @dirvine @lightyear.

[lightyear]

I see that one is already over. Do I understand correctly that you had to drop the application because it was costing you too many resources (as in: it wasn’t finally submitted)?

Do you think any of this years areas funding areas would be applicable (I am looking at ICT-06-2016, ICT-10-2016, ICT-12-2016, ICT-13-2016)? Maybe some previously created content could be reused?

I feel strongly using some of those newly raised funds to get someone on board to apply to (all of) those would be a great investment! (And again, I am happy to facilitate…!)

---

Update: never mind, application deadline for those was April 2016. But there’s still a bunch of 2017 which only needs to be applied for by Nov!

[nicklambert]

The application was fully completed on 2 seperate occassions, we just weren’t the top 5 entries that they estimate that are funded,. They indicated that there were anywhere from 250 - 500 entries from all across Europe. Very dissapointed to not be selected, although it was very challenging to explain MaidSafe, our reveunue model, safecoin, the SAFE Network, crytpocurrencies…etc… to a selection committee who for the most part hadn’t heard of bitcoin.

I would touch base with your local government enterprise advisor, they should be able to help, although from the pretty extensive list you will be able to get something to fit.

[dirvine]

@lightyear

I feel strongly using some of those newly raised funds to get someone on board to apply to (all of) those would be a great investment! (And again, I am happy to facilitate…

Like the sounds of this, We have some other ideas to come into play that I think you may also like. More very soon.

[riddim]

@nicklambert

although it was very challenging to explain MaidSafe, our reveunue model, safecoin, the SAFE Network, crytpocurrencies…etc… to a selection committee who for the most part hadn’t heard of bitcoin.

explaining the concept of color to a blind person xD

…yeah much to digest in little time for the committee too … quite a task to just explain the idea properly …

[cl0ck3d]

It is what it is. What are we going to do tell the developers to shove it?

Developers need to be paid. They have mouths that need to be fed. The money has to come from somewhere.

The show must go on whatever it takes. we will have to redouble our efforts.

[MrAnderson]

Okay, maybe it is my obsession for the details and maybe it is me wanting to again blindly believe in the project, but I think you could be a little more specific.

Current Market Supply: 452,552,412 MAID MaidSafeCoin price today, MAID to USD live, marketcap and chart | CoinMarketCap

Crowdsale Supply: “10% of the 2^32 of coins” = 429,000,000 MAID ----- 1:1 conversion to SafeCoins Extra MAID generated from the crowdsale

452,552,412 - 429,000,000 = 23,552,412 over produced.

Directly or Indirectly you currently controlled 24,973,729 MAID and sent 973729 MAID to poloniex http://omnichest.info/lookuptx.aspx?txid=f54bf17afb4023f8b5bbbfa0c4a3a73c0df8c01ab3e0cfc44724503e11f05a57 . Now the total amount is 24M even.

Now for the transparency part.
What is your current total MAID, BTC, Other Cryptocurrency/token/etc, Fiat you (MaidSafe and all employees, family, contractors, Foundation) control? Specifically the 973,729 that was sent to Poloniex on 4/28/2016. Is it sitting there in BTC waiting to buy up a cheep MAID?

What USD amount do you estimate you will need to produce a working network that has functional SafeCoin? This of course will include the human work hours needed to finish the code. I think if the community knew what the price tag was to get SafeCoin sooner rather than later, then they would happily pay it.

How can we be assured this sudden change in the stability of the project is not a ploy to buy up as much cheap MAID as possible right before you launch to the world SafeCoin and everyone forgets this stress being put on the community?

I don’t think you need to answer any of those questions until the original agreement is breached, which by my calculations is 447,588 more MAID you can draw on. The only thing that has nagged me from the completion of the crowd-sale is ‘how can a group that is building a network that champions freedom of information and taking out the need for human intervention and trust’ not being equally transparent about how they are spending/making value that was provided by the community?